So, we have the Windies tour, test tour of India and then the T20 World Cup. Who would you pick in your ideal starting XI's (no injuries)?

T20:

Guptill
B. McCullum
Ryder
Taylor
Franklin
Brownlie
Oram
Vettori (assuming he comes back for T20 WC)
N. McCullum
Southee
Hira

Matt Henry to be in the T20 squad purely as a batsman. Such a clean striker of the ball.

ODI:

Guptill
B. McCullum
Ryder
Taylor
Williamson
Franklin
Oram (pinch hit option)
N. McCullum
Nethula
Mills
McKay

12th Man: Nicol / Latham
Yeah, that's right, no out of form, where-the-hell-has-that-death-yorker-gone Southee.

Test:

Guptill
B. McCullum
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
Flynn
Watling
Bracewell
Gillespie
Boult
Martin

Assuming Wagner can't be selected. Brownlie and van Wyk are unlucky really. Dan? Well, he ain't effective no more.

T20:

Guptill
Ryder
B. McCullum
Taylor
Franklin
Brownlie
Oram
Vettori/all rounder
N. McCullum
Southee
Hira (or extra seamer)

Kane would be in the squad, he was actually one of our better in the T20's this summer. Some would argue it's not good for his test game but meh

ODI:

Guptill
Ryder
B. McCullum
Taylor
Williamson
Brownlie
Oram
N. McCullum
Nethula/Ellis/All-rounder
Mills/Bracewell/McKay/Wagner
Gillespie (mad?)

12th: Flynn/Latham/Franklin

Test:

Flynn (C'mon Gupp...)
B. McCullum
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
Brownlie
Watling
Bracewell
Gillespie
Boult
Martin

Wagner when he's available would go straight in.

Ryder to get his shit together and be back in all sides.

Vettori needs to retire from test cricket and go back to ODIs and T20s where he was actually useful.

oddjob wrote: Vettori needs to retire from test cricket and go back to ODIs and T20s where he was actually useful.

this. not a quality test wicket taker, bring in nethula, blood the bastard so we can has leggies all day erry day.

It's not a surprise to me that the most impressive victory NZ has had in the past 10 years came without Daniel Vettori being in the side. He is not only ineffective with the ball but actually damaging to the side because all captains tend to give him the ball due to their reverence of him and he bowls the bulk of the overs, generally returning wickets at 45-50 against good sides and never running through sides. He ties up an end and saves runs, but also saves the other teams wickets, they can afford to go 30 overs in a day and score 85 runs as they do against him because it means they can risk a little more at the other end and score against the pace bowlers without worrying about wickets at two ends. His batting is not good enough to demand a place in our current line up despite his stellar stats recently so therefore, he MUST be dropped.

I don't care about selecting for ODI or T20, I only select test teams. Based on current availability (i.e no Ryder or Wagner)

1. Flynn
2. Guptill
3. McCullum
4. Taylor
5. Williamson
6. Brownlie
7. Franklin
8. Van Wyk/Watling
9. Bracewell
10. Gillespie
11. Martin.

If Guptill continues his poor run of form, then as soon as Ryder becomes available, Guptill out, McCullum opening, Ryder 3.

Ryder can **** right off, srsly.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new...jectid=10796202

BrockaLee wrote: Ryder can **** right off, srsly. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new...jectid=10796202

A guy suffering from clinical depression and going through a crisis period where he pulls himself out of the game for a number of weeks to get himself right, gets abused on the field by one of his supposed "team mates" at the Wellington Firebirds, lashes out at him about it and now you're saying "**** Ryder"

**** you guys, basically - the guy admits to his demons, goes and gets professional help for it, no doubt at his own personal embarrassment and you're getting up his ass because he gets angry at a team mate of his giving him shit about the way he's managing a mental illness?

Obviously you have zero interpersonal skills.

Anyone else read this?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazin...ory/559390.html

Former Australian off spinner Ashley Mallett is tipping Williamson for big things. Neil Harvey apparently adores him too.

Jalepeno wrote: A guy suffering from clinical depression

Source?

Barbanator wrote: Anyone else read this? http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazin...ory/559390.html Former Australian off spinner Ashley Mallett is tipping Williamson for big things. Neil Harvey apparently adores him too.

"Vettori is having a problem with his bowling, which can be easily fixed, so watch for improved performances from the talented left-arm spinner."

I'd take what Ashley Mallett is saying about NZC with a grain of salt tbh.

Jalepeno wrote: A guy suffering from clinical depression and going through a crisis period where he pulls himself out of the game for a number of weeks to get himself right, gets abused on the field by one of his supposed "team mates" at the Wellington Firebirds, lashes out at him about it and now you're saying "**** Ryder" **** you guys, basically - the guy admits to his demons, goes and gets professional help for it, no doubt at his own personal embarrassment and you're getting up his ass because he gets angry at a team mate of his giving him shit about the way he's managing a mental illness? Obviously you have zero interpersonal skills.

This. Anyway it doesn't matter whether clinical depression or not, he obviously has deep seated issues stemming from his rough upbringing he's addressing (which always affects you and your behaviour as an adult, ask any shrink) which is never easy to do, particularly if you're in the spotlight as a professional sports star / celebrity like he is thus why he has an clinical psychologist.

l2empathy MXRecord.

Also like with a lot of sports stars with poor and/or rough upbringings, the sport was an escape and outlet for them away from the negatives.

Your childhood and upbringing always affects you as an adult, both positively and negatively.
I guess those mental health awareness campaigns didn't kick in for you (MX and Brock)

And? There are people out there who have had it much worse and don't behave the way he does.
It doesn't matter what you were in the past, what matters is what you choose to be now.

ChineseKiwi wrote: I guess those mental health awareness campaigns didn't kick in for you (MX and Brock)

Idiot.

MXRecord wrote: And? There are people out there who have had it much worse and don't behave the way he does. It doesn't matter what you were in the past, what matters is what you choose to be now.

Exactly thus why he's been brave and taken the steps to help himself. This takes time. You may fail the first (or few) times.

If say you took time out of work to recover from bring an drug addict, checked yourself into rehab, dedicated your mental energy towards getting better and then got back to work but then one of your workmates abused you for being off work and not helping out, would you be offended? Course you would.

Good to know you've never had mental illness or had anyone around you whose had it.

ChineseKiwi wrote: Exactly thus why he's been brave and taken the steps to help himself. This takes time. You may fail the first (or few) times. If say you took time out of work to recover from bring an drug addict, checked yourself into rehab, dedicated your mental energy towards getting better and then got back to work but then one of your workmates abused you for being off work and not helping out, would you be offended? Course you would.

I just question his timing. If it is all as a result from a meltdown or if he wasn't getting himself any better, then he does need to get applauded.

The impression I had from him was that he is a jackass who takes his talent for granted and believes he is royalty.. I could be wrong.

ChineseKiwi wrote: Good to know you've never had mental illness or had anyone around you whose had it.

Not even close to being true.

MXRecord wrote: Not even close to being true.

I'm guessing then, that you have no clue about the family background of Ryder.

Abandoned by his parents, raised by a single grand parent, moved around quite a bit and the only reason he ever had to be confident about himself was his sporting ability.

The whole overweight thing? Yeah, probably a case of insecurities feeding a tendency to be an emotional over-eater.
The whole drinking thing? Textbook abandonment issues.
Constantly ****ing up when in the spotlight? Abandonment issues, depression and insecurity.

Now realise he grew up in a poor area, amongst a bunch of friends who are social misfits and underachievers, who see getting shit faced as the in thing to do (welcome to New Zealand, binge drinking is prevalent throughout society, any club cricketer will tell you there are several "Jesses" in every single club, just not with the same degree of talent). His support structures that he goes to when he's had bad news or is feeling bad are a bunch of young mates who all console him by doing what young males in NZ do - getting shitfaced, then he goes out, and his abandonment and insecurity issues make him act out because he wants attention.

I've never even studied psychology but to me - the above is pretty evident as to why he acts out and it's a case of not being managed well. The same case exists amongst a LOT of sports stars in New Zealand - Zac Guildford is a prominent one, Cory Jane is another, the constant issues Maa Nonu had during his youth. The difference? Rugby doesn't tend to piss all over someone in this case, they also have better support structures in place.

Ryder wasn't overweight growing up, he was pretty damn skinny when he went to the u19 world cup




He ballooned within 1-2 years after. Guessing that was the worst of the issues.

Would have been far trimmer than Tim!

Tim chop his sleaves off there?

LOL

He looks like Lip from Shameless.

I find it quite 'convenient' for Ryder that hes got his shit together in time for the IPL.

ErAd wrote: I find it quite 'convenient' for Ryder that hes got his shit together in time for the IPL.

Dude needs to work. That's why he bought over his support.
+ Not to mention getting away from the negative NZ press.

Why couldn't he work a week ago? Not enough money to be made?

Barbanator wrote: Why couldn't he work a week ago? Not enough money to be made?

ErAd wrote: I find it quite 'convenient' for Ryder that hes got his shit together in time for the IPL.

Like I stated above, he's away from the spotlight within New Zealand and can simply go there and play cricket, rather than be scrutinised in every local rag he walks past. It's an ideal work environment for him and to mitigate against the risks, he's taking his psychologist (who wouldn't come cheap) with him

Jalepeno and ChineseKiwi, thank you for taking the time to explain the background for Ryder, although it does not fully excuse any misbehavior, it certainly puts it into perspective for me.