Debt Collecting for Noobs

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  1. Post
    #1
    Right - where to begin! I will start by referring you to this thread.

    In this thread a user was ripped off for $200, which by the way could have been avoided had he thought it through. (lol sorry Shrapz!) The buyer paid money into an account of a Trade Me user who had **** feedback, wouldn't allow pickups and and was posting dodgy ass answers to questions in the auction.

    Need a cash influx fast. If you want to make an offer I will consider anything reasonable. Payment with 6 hour of the Auction closing or will relist.
    No pick ups sorry. I am actually away and my flatmate will be posting it. Payment via internet or bank deposit, and then the laptop will be sent same day courier
    These quotes from the auction should have set off alarm bells, but anyway he paid the money and after several emails he did not receive anything until finally no communication at all.

    As you may have seen from the linked thread, I contacted him and after several promises via email and text that he would pay, he didn't. As of today, he has not paid. I had really hoped that he wouldn't pay, which is why I had just left him alone over the last few days to prepare for what happens next.

    Stick around and I will show you how to turn a $200 debt into over $1000, and have it paid in full. Feel free to ask any questions along the way.

  2. Post
    #2
    First step is to size up your debtor - depending on the amount you're after, you need to see if they have money, or a regular income.

    Our man in this matter is BRADLEY WILLIAM MCLAREN, he has a steady income and doesn't seem to think I will go to the effort of enforcing payment of $200 through the system. Usually, I would not bother going through this much trouble for $200 but Brad practically dared me to do it.

    In saying that, if your debtor is a bum, on a benefit or minimum wage then all is not lost. If you are prepared to be paid back week by week at a minimal amount then the only was for them to avoid payment is bankruptcy. You need to decide if the amount you are owed is worth going through the process - it is really a personal preference but I assure you, you can get paid if you are willing to stick at it through to the end. I will touch on this one later, as there are many things you can do if you are being paid a minimal weekly amount and know that the debtor can afford more.

  3. Post
    #3
    alskdj wrote:
    eagerly awaiting updates. How long would you expect this process to take?
    I filed court proceedings yesterday - it depends a lot on what the debtor BRADLEY MCLAREN does once the process is started, as to when it is finished. I an tell you that it will be at least 5-6 weeks from today to get any result, as it must go through the court system.

  4. Post
    #4
    So yesterday, I filed a Notice of Claim in the Auckland District Court.

    This is a relatively new process to the justice system which replaces old Notice of Proceedings, and Application for Summary Judgment. It is a claim form in which I have requested a hearing in front of a Judge, to award me 'Judgment' in my favour. Judgment is basically the Judge saying 'yes, he owes you, and must pay'.

    Once I have received the documents back from the Court, probably tomorrow or Thursday I must then serve a copy on BRADLEY MCLAREN, he then has 30 days to file a Notice of Defence, and serve it on me. If he does, then there will be a hearing set down and we both must appear and present our cases. If he does not appear, then I will be awarded with default judgment. I am guessing he wont appear, and wont file any defence, because he doesn't have one. I would prefer he did file a defence, as I love court hearings.

    Here is where I turn the $200 into over $1000.

    When I filed the Notice of Claim, it cost me $140.00 to do this. I can add this to the claim, along with $150.00 for serving the notice, and another $645.00 in Solicitors fees. This now brings the grand total of my claim to $1135.00. These are standard costs awarded by the Court, I could ask for more in special circumstances.

  5. Post
    #5
    MoNk wrote:
    Good thread aarOn-afk.

    When you just have someones first name and bank account number, how do you then get their details?
    That's when I have to rely on my GPOD army, unfortunately banks don't give information out to anyone so that is where you need someone on the inside

  6. Post
    #6
    Patriotnz wrote:
    Very nice. Couple of q's.. (Sorry if you're planning on covering this is in subsequent posts - do you want all q's left till the end?)

    The $150 for servicing the notice.
    How was that figure arrived at? Do the courts just accept that that is an acceptable fee for service of the notice - even if you serve it yourself?

    The $645 solicitor fees.
    Again, presumably you didn't in fact utilise a solicitor? How do you validate that amount if challenged?
    Good questions!

    The $150.00 is just standard costs awarded for service, (in the District Court Rules) irrelevant to who serves the notice. It can increase if the debtor avoids being served or if an application for substituted service is made. Substituted service is if a debtor avoids service, you can apply to the Court for an order to serve them by attaching the notice to his door, serving it on an associate, by public notices in the newspaper, even via email or facebook.

    The $645.00 is also a standard cost awarded for Solicitors fees. In this case, a Solicitor signed AND filed the Notice of Claim *whistles*

  7. Post
    #7
    eXDee wrote:
    Oh wow. This shall be interesting. I hope he doesnt pay before you complete the process.

    At what point does it become necessary to repo their possessions? Can it be done if they repeatedly refuse to pay?
    Yes - if he does not pay, I can apply to the Court to have his property seized and sold. The only thing with this is it gets quite hard to prove possession of things like TV's as they don't have owner details registered, unless they are bought new. Cars are always good if they are not financed.

  8. Post
    #8
    By the way...this is BRADLEY MCLAREN

    Attached Images


  9. Post
    #9
    MoNk wrote:
    Ever been asked how you got the info? Do you even have to answer? Can't be too legal.
    Don't get me wrong I think this is great
    Good question!

    I have never been asked by any authority as to where any information comes from, as it is not really relevant to the specific matters. It is not 'illegal' to share information but in some instances, breaches the privacy act.

  10. Post
    #10
    MyLittlePony wrote:
    This is awesome. I hope this will deter other people from scamming here in GP. Give it a few days and it'll be in HOF thread xD

    I got questions for aaron as well:

    If he decided that he wants to pay up before the court hearing, will he have to pay $200 or $1000?

    I thought for case under $10,000 you have to use dispute tribunal. what's the advantages of going through court instead of dispute tribunal?

    Assuming the judgement is awarded to your favour, how are you going to enforce that? and what will you do if he escapes from you again? (i would believe chances for this is quite high)
    No, he was given a deadline to make payment or a suitable solution - he told me he had made full payment on 17th February and was advised of the extra costs that will be incurred before the proceedings were filed.

    Disputes tribunal is for two parties who think they are in the right, they try to steer clear of basic debt collection.

  11. Post
    #11
    Coolguy6 wrote:
    Just wondering, how you justify this option due to the amount being claimed on and when it could be settled through the disputes triburnal for a $30 cost.

    Could this person not mitigate these costs by argueing that the costs are obscene in comparasion to the claim.

    That it could have been settled through the disputes tribunal, which is where claims of this mangnitude are usually settled.

    Could the defendent argue due to the size of the claim, the plantiff was unjustly seeking vengenace, by utilising the most expensive method of claim settlement, rather than going through standard means of retreival for claims of this size.

    Also could the defendant before the court case set up a dispute triburnal hearing. He could then explain this to the judge that he was doing the best he could to settle the situation through a more sensable channel. The judge may be leanient and not award costs.

    In these cases would you not ethier get nothing or have the money returned without reimbusement of costs.

    Could someone knowledgable in this area give their perspective on these situations (never done law, don't know anything about it, lol.).

    Seems like a lot of risk (even commiting fraud) for not much gain, not to mention to have basically stooped to the level of those your trying to claim on.
    I answered your Disputes Tribunal question in my previous post.

    Yes BRADLEY MCLAREN could dispute the claim amount, but seeing as it is part of the District Court Rules, and gets awarded to claims hundreds of times a day, it would never actually make it to a hearing. Not to mention the fact that BRADLEY MCLAREN obtained by deception.

    Coolguy6 wrote:
    What if the defendent successfully argues that he was able did as much as he could to refund, sent the item, or was in the process of returning the money, but as he had sent the item though it was ok to spend the money, thus waiting till he had it to return it.
    If he could prove that he did as much as he could to refund then he would have a case. In this case he specified a refund date, prior to that date he was advised that if he could not pay, then he could enter into an payment schedule. Then, he said he had paid and emailed a fake receipt. (lol@that btw)

  12. Post
    #12
    CoolShady wrote:
    Be nice. We're all learning here.
    Sorry, which part of...

    "Disputes tribunal is for two parties who think they are in the right, they try to steer clear of basic debt collection"

    should I be nicer about? just so I will know for next time.

    EDIT:

  13. Post
    #13
    J`` wrote:
    I've got $10.00 on the fact that the debtor won't end up paying in full and the court will do an order of examination for <$50/week.
    haha so he wont end up paying in full but will pay <$50pw?

    Normally I would agree with you however in this case I intend on being at the examination order hearing, and will insist on documented proof of any financial information he supplies, he is not going to get away with just filling in the form and offering $5 per week. So I will take your $10!

  14. Post
    #14
    Thanks again to everyone, but I really don't need anything and I only did this to show you how the process works and how long it takes.
    It is flattering that you want to 'donate' etc but honestly I am fine

    And besides, I really do get a kick out of it

  15. Post
    #15
    thesurge wrote:
    Good stuff Aaron. I've just received judgment on my notice of claim after 30 days no response. No payment as of yet, so I've filed for an examation order and a distress warrant. My debtor (a business) claims he has no money to pay - I was wondering how the proceedings go in the examination order, and how in depth the debtor is 'examined'?

    Keep up the good work.
    I assume your debt is less than $1000 so no Statutory Demand?

    Anyway - the examination order is the part that really lets the system down. First of all you have bailiffs who need to serve the summons on the debtor and in many cases I have actually had to drive them to the debtors house and point them out. Once they have eventually done it, then the debtor appears at a hearing where he pleads poverty, offers $5 per week and it gets accepted. When it comes time for this you should attend the hearing and demand that your debtor provide evidence of his income and expenses - not just a form he has completed.

    Sometimes, they can only afford minimal payments, but you must insist. You can also request a new hearing if your debtor's circumstances change further down the line.

  16. Post
    #16
    Been a tad busy as of late, received documents for service late last week but had to wait until he got back to work this week to serve them on him - he was served at his work address today - I made a video of the whole thing too

    I will see how it turned out later and upload~

  17. Post
    #17
    blakjesus wrote:
    lol aaron, randomly stumbled accross this thread of awesomeness. Nice to know people still cant escape the long arm of the lawl. Pity the Nelson division has been quiet for a couple of years now
    haha woah Dylan! talk about blast from the past!

  18. Post
    #18
    anyway - no video until tomorrow, I don't have time and it's too long at the moment, and besides my video skills need lots of improvement

  19. Post
    #19
    From: info@served.co.nz
    To: xxxxxx@hotmail.com
    Subject: Brad William McLaren aka Brad Routledge
    Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:57:43 +1300

    Brad

    We had an agreement that you would pay $200.00 into my account as reimbursement for the money that you fraudulently obtained via a fake online auction. You advised me via text message on 16/02/10 that you would be making payment the following day, after midnight. I agreed to this.

    On 18/02/10 you advised payment had been made online. Today is 21/02/10, no payment has been received. You advised me on 20/02/10 that you would provide me with a receipt that day. No receipt received. You emailed me on 21/02/10 with something that I was supposed to believe was a receipt – however it was not.

    If the money is not in my account on 22/02/10 before 12:00pm. I will have a Solicitor sign the Notice of Claim that has already been prepared and file it in the Auckland District Court. Once filed, you will then be legally liable for;

    $200.00 – Original debt amount
    $140.00 – Filing fee
    $645.00 – Solicitors fee
    $150.00 – Service fee

    That will be a total of $1135.00. I am sure right now you will be thinking like everyone else we do this to, and that is that we cannot possibly do this. Well, Brad – we can and we will. I suggest you check with a Lawyer, or Citizens Advice Bureau if you don’t think we can.

    Once I have Judgment against you in the Court, and you still don’t pay – I will enforce the Judgment by applying to the Court for an attachment order on your wages. At the end of the day, you will pay I assure you.

    I note that you told me via text a few minutes ago that I should take this to the Police – I have already spoken with the Police and there will be a file created tomorrow afternoon should payment not be in the account. If you think I am not serious about this either – don’t pay. It is called ‘Obtained by Deception’.

    Anyway, I have said all I need to – it’s your call.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Brad Routledge [mailto:xxxxxx@hotmail.com]
    Sent: Sunday, 21 February 2010 6:07 p.m.
    To: info@served.co.nz
    Subject: RE: Brad William McLaren aka Brad Routledge

    I'll give you this much - you certainly sound real enough. Pity that the website you "own" doesn't link to anything. I am not scared.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: info@served.co.nz
    To: xxxxxx@hotmail.com
    Subject: RE: Brad William McLaren aka Brad Routledge
    Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:51:35 +1300

    How do I sound now?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Brad Routledge [mailto:xxxxxx@hotmail.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, 3 March 2010 10:51 a.m.
    To: info@served.co.nz
    Subject: RE: Brad William McLaren aka Brad Routledge

    I'll tell you how you look - not like the lawyer that you claim to be. **** off and leave me alone. You don't scare me.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: A&A Process Servers Ltd [mailto:info@served.co.nz]
    Sent: Wednesday, 3 March 2010 1:00 p.m.
    To: 'Brad Routledge'
    Subject: RE: Brad William McLaren aka Brad Routledge

    Haha who said I was a lawyer you moron?

    I am not trying to scare you – if I wanted to do that I would have arrived at your work in a gerbil costume. But no, I will not **** off and I will not leave you alone. I am not going to stop until I have got an attachment order on your salary or wages, and you have paid back the full $1135 that I will get judgment for, and I will get it whether you like it or not.

    And that is just the beginning.

  20. Post
    #20
    From: info@served.co.nz
    To: xxxxxx@hotmail.com
    Subject: Oh by the way...
    Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:01:31 +1300

    Could you let me know the email address for management at Answer Services? Saves me having to find it myself.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Brad Routledge [mailto:xxxxxx@hotmail.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, 3 March 2010 1:24 p.m.
    To: info@served.co.nz
    Subject: RE: Oh by the way...

    If you contact my work you will find the courts do not take kindly to that. Don't be a dick. I'll see you in court. And P.S. - the papers say the person serving me is a lawyer

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: info@served.co.nz
    To: xxxxxx@hotmail.com
    Subject: RE: Oh by the way...
    Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:39:10 +1300

    Lucky for me the Court do not have any Rules, Acts or Laws that relate to “taking kindly to that” – As far as I am aware I am doing a public service by notifying as many people as I can as to how much of a dishonest wanker you are. I believe an employer should be aware of these things, you don’t agree?

    I guess I stand corrected with regards to who served you. You are obviously the expert in this area.

    Anyway, can’t wait to hear your defence for this, you could even use the same one when the Police file is issued. I must advise though, stupidity is not a defence.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Brad Routledge [mailto:xxxxxx@hotmail.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, 3 March 2010 1:48 p.m.
    To: info@served.co.nz
    Subject: RE: Oh by the way...

    Like I said. Leave it to the courts. If you contact me again I will lodge an harrassment complaint. Same if you contact the police. I am quite serious. I will go to court, I will plead my case, and if I end up having to pay, I will pay. If not, tough. But don't take me lightly - if you show up at my work, contact my work, or contact me again, I assure you I will lay an harrassment claim against you

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: A&A Process Servers Ltd [mailto:info@served.co.nz]
    Sent: Wednesday, 3 March 2010 1:52 p.m.
    To: 'Brad Routledge'
    Subject: RE: Oh by the way...

    Please do, it will look good on my resume.

  21. Post
    #21
    The video is 22mb~ I need to edit and compress, or reduce quality?

  22. Post
    #22
    ok, I am uploading it to YouTube now, but like I said, my camera skills aren't the best in this one, and you cant really see him

  23. Post
    #23
    Codyyy wrote:
    Whats the audio like Aaron?
    Its not bad, could be better in parts, the whole video is kinda boring actually - I should have ended it with a punch in the face or something to spice it up a bit

  24. Post
    #24

  25. Post
    #25
    wellns87 wrote:
    you sound like such a friendly chap lol
    Sound? I AMMMMM a friendly chap!

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