The climate change debate and potential solutions thread

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  1. Post
    gneiss wrote:
    Again with the what you heard rather than learning before speaking. Order a model 3 right now and gets delivered next month. A model X gets here in November. That’s as fast or faster than ordering an Audi, BMW or Mercedes as a custom order. You should learn some stuff before spouting off (again).
    Not sure how you can say that seriously basing it on Audi, BMW, or Mercedes ordering times? Next month - is that 1,5 weeks or 6 weeks? And what about that price?

  2. Post
    I’m basing it on cars that are similar price range. Apples for apples. Tesla is a luxury brand. Sick of arguing with you for stupid shit. Might just stop replying to you at all for my own sanity.

  3. Post
    gneiss wrote:
    Tesla is a luxury brand.
    That was kind of my point to sorcerer. Maybe you should be arguing with him? Or do you just automatically argue with me for the sake of it?

  4. Post
    I correct your constant inaccuracies. You then argue because you have things stuck in your head which are outdated or wrong and you refuse to learn or acknowledge them.

  5. Post
    One day a week without meat is a pretty cool, small start to shifting your demand to incentivise changes for businesses. I think meat consumption is entirely viable in "better climate models", but the sheer volume of meat we are consuming is bad.

    Then maybe add, one day a week you try not use your car or something.

    Businesses will try pounce on trends like this, and then it can create a positive cycle of demand/supply economic incentive change that is beneficial to creating more sustainable civilisations.

  6. Post
    gneiss wrote:
    I correct your constant inaccuracies. You then argue because you have things stuck in your head which are outdated or wrong and you refuse to learn or acknowledge them.
    I pointed out EVs performance do not currently meet most consumers needs. Sorcerer pointed out the tesla, I pointed out the price and delivery date issues. You countered with they are luxury vehicles. That doesn't negate their price being out of reach of the typical consumer/car buyer - likewise the delivery dates.

    You just want to disagree with me for the sake of it (if not religious beliefs).

  7. Post
    Vulcan wrote:
    I pointed out EVs performance do not currently meet most consumers needs. Sorcerer pointed out the tesla, I pointed out the price and delivery date issues. You countered with they are luxury vehicles. That doesn't negate their price being out of reach of the typical consumer/car buyer - likewise the delivery dates.

    You just want to disagree with me for the sake of it (if not religious beliefs).
    I showed you that there were no delivery issues. Simple as that. I’m up to speed because I’ve been looking at buying one, and a mate of mine has one. You are wrong about it, but you won’t acknowledge it. As I clearly said, I was comparing the delivery times of other luxury vehicles to show you that there is no delivery time issue. You’re too pigheaded to acknowledge it.

  8. Post
    Vulcan wrote:
    I pointed out EVs performance do not currently meet most consumers needs. Sorcerer pointed out the tesla, I pointed out the price and delivery date issues. You countered with they are luxury vehicles. That doesn't negate their price being out of reach of the typical consumer/car buyer - likewise the delivery dates.

    You just want to disagree with me for the sake of it (if not religious beliefs).
    At the end of the day, 99% of people would make their next vehicle purchase an EV if it was affordable AND had the same range as the ICE vehicle it replaced.

    So the fact that EV penetration is so low here is simply down to the prices and performance and until that changes nothing else will.
    For now only the rich can afford them - and 90% of people who own an EV here use it as a second vehicle, they still have an ICE vehicle to do the things that EV can’t - or own multiple - my boss owns 5 EVs now including a Model X

  9. Post
    Public transport is the answer not evs, they are too expensive atm(unless they have drastically reduced it price) not to mention the negatives of actually building them as well.

  10. Post
    I’m quite interested to see where Hydrogen goes - Hyundai plans to sell a car here using it and some trials are under way to transport it around the country using pipelines. Petrol stations can be easily upgraded to use it.

    The EV pricing just kills it.

    And the Model 3 is not a good example - 60 odd thousand is not affordable - if you can afford to buy that cash or pay off that debt then you are rich congratulations. For the middle class though - if they really wanted to buy a new car they most they could spend would be between $20k and $30k. For that you could buy a small hatchback that gets 700km per tank. $30k won’t even get you half a Tesla - at best you can buy A second hand Nissan Leaf but it will only do around 200km, no where near the 700km ICE equivalent and then you back to square one which is that your EV becomes your drive to work car and you still need a ICE car.

  11. Post
    Hydrogen is definitely the best way forward.

  12. Post
    Vulcan wrote:
    I pointed out EVs performance do not currently meet most consumers needs. Sorcerer pointed out the tesla, I pointed out the price and delivery date issues. You countered with they are luxury vehicles. That doesn't negate their price being out of reach of the typical consumer/car buyer - likewise the delivery dates.

    You just want to disagree with me for the sake of it (if not religious beliefs).
    Yep keep shifting the goal posts... So it's not a range/performance issue now?

    Tesla is the future, I would've thought as a tech guy you would get it. Guess not.

  13. Post
    sorceror wrote:
    Yep keep shifting the goal posts... So it's not a range/performance issue now?

    Tesla is the future, I would've thought as a tech guy you would get it. Guess not.
    For urban people, cars aren't the future, they may own one, but like city dwellers everywhere, they'll seldom use it.

    30% of people crossing Auckland's harbour bridge now do it on a bus, and it's increasing exponentially.

    If you'd predicted that 10 years ago no one would have believed you.

  14. Post
    i think it's pretty clear i'm talking about the future of cars, not the future of 'urban' people (whoever that is).

  15. Post
    I like EVs but the personal automobile is just such a crappy way to move humans. It's so inefficient as a transport vehicle. We need to start replacing roads with things like light rail, and actively trying to reduce congestion through PT initiatives. Even if we had no issue with climate change, we would still have congestion problems, and trying to build your way out of congestion with more roads doesn't work.

  16. Post
    sorceror wrote:
    i think it's pretty clear i'm talking about the future of cars, not the future of 'urban' people (whoever that is).
    He's probably referring to those big US and Euro cities where people live all their lives in the city, and public transport works. Unfortunately that template doesn't work in NZ. In NZ not having a car is a huge disadvantage for education, healthcare, shopping and general lifestyle.

  17. Post
    sorceror wrote:
    i think it's pretty clear i'm talking about the future of cars, not the future of 'urban' people (whoever that is).
    It's pretty clear that EVs are just cars that don't pollute as much.

    We need more of them in Auckland like a hole in the head.

    It's not like China isn't going to build another coal fired power plant every time you buy an electric car.

  18. Post
    Latest IPCC report is out. It’s not good news across nearly all fronts. Have a read.

    https://public.wmo.int/en/media/pres...-action-summit

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  19. Post
    How can you remain so conservative as to future trends, with every new report exponentially worse than the previous one. The way I still see it, is with every thing getting worse exponentially, feedbacks will come sooner than linear projections forecast.