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    #1

    First impressions: GoldenEye 007 (Wii)

    First impressions by James Cullinane;

    Cast your eye over anything written about Activision and Eurocom’s GoldenEye 007 and you’ll come across the phrase “for the Wii” more than you’ll care to count. First and foremost, it’s an objective statement – obviously, GoldenEye is exclusive to Nintendo’s console – but you’ll also see it used prolifically as a qualifier: “GoldenEye certainly looks good for a Wii game.”

    That’s something that’s given us pause.
    Read more here.

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    #2
    "We, on the other hand, think Wii games should play to the platform’s (numerous) strengths."

    Totally agree, except for the "numerous" part.

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    #3
    Look i'm all for these re-imagining of old games. Perfect Dark and Bionic Commando (the dl one) were great examples of it done right. IMO this is it done wrong.

    Essentially they are taking out exactly what made Goldeneye Goldeneye and repackaging it, even though it has had it's soul ripped out and changed. I want to see Pierce Brosnan and Sean Bean (ok licensing issues but still) I don't want to see Daniel Craig doing the best bits with the story amended to make it make sense. That isn't Goldeneye.

    This isn't a wii thing or even an Activision thing, just something that isn't a good thing imo...

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    #4
    i dont understand the need to add all these new gameplay features (gun blasting, or sneaky?)
    goldeneye was brilliant and it didnt need all that.

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    #5
    Malkav wrote:
    i dont understand the need to add all these new gameplay features (gun blasting, or sneaky?)
    goldeneye was brilliant and it didnt need all that.
    golden eye was basically guns ablazing, i dont see the harm in adding the choice. i for one think this will be a great game.the video i saw of it looked promising. too bad i dont have a wii though.

    and also, im glad they've used Daniel Craig. hes the first Bond who actually pulls it off. Brosnan, imo, didnt look like the agent type. eg you would think an agent doing missions like Bond does would be a fit, in shape person. Brosnan looked pethatic.

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    #6
    I'm no Wii fanboy, but this guy nails it :

    http://malstrom.50webs.com/birdman.html (massive wall of text).

    In short, Wii has monopolized the market for casual gamers, and Nintendo will now use that base to start to migrate in more 'hardcore' games that will leverage off the casual base to start to squeeze PS3 and Xbox out of the market.

    So i suspect what you'll see is : A well crafted game that PS3 and Xbox lovers will poohoo, and then gnash their teeth in incomprehension as it goes on to massively outsell any equivalent game on either of those platforms.

    In fact, i'll put up a $20 wager that exactly that happens, if anyone is dumb enough to take it up.

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    #7
    notlim naneek wrote:
    hes the first Bond who actually pulls it off.
    You mean apart from Connery, right?

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    #8
    Fortris wrote:
    In short, Wii has monopolized the market for casual gamers, and Nintendo will now use that base to start to migrate in more 'hardcore' games that will leverage off the casual base to start to squeeze PS3 and Xbox out of the market.
    That makes about as much sense as Honda pushing Ferrari out of the supercar market by leveraging off their much larger customer base of mass produced consumer friendly cars.

    In short, I'll take your $20 bet, give me a timeframe you expect this game to come out that'll have PS3 and 360 owners kicking themselves.

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    #9
    bradc wrote:
    That makes about as much sense as Honda pushing Ferrari out of the supercar market by leveraging off their much larger customer base off mass produced consumer friendly cars.
    Except that in this case, Ferrari have failed to realise that the people who would likely buy Ferrari's in 5 years time are currently developing huge brand loyalty to Honda, and therefore if Honda makes a supercar they'll lap it up, while Ferrari looks on in confusion as to why their target market died off.

    Read the article. The guys is right. 'Hardcore' gamers are really just yesterdays casual gamers who have migrated up the chain of command. They're not some sort of predetermined elite around whom game design is inherently supposed to be based.

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    #10
    I take it you've never heard of an NSX.

    A huge chunk of Wii buyers just aren't interested in the sorts of titles a PS3 or 360 owner would be envious of, just as the bulk of Honda owners aren't interested in uneconomical supercars. Just check out the top selling Wii games. There have been some genuinely good Wii games that cater more towards hardcore gamers that don't even feature.
    Fortris wrote:
    Read the article. The guys is right. 'Hardcore' gamers are really just yesterdays casual gamers who have migrated up the chain of command.
    And yesterdays casual gamers weren't old and/or female.

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    #11
    gwarden wrote:
    You mean apart from Connery, right?
    in a physical, believable agent i say Craig. but obviously Connery is right up there too. dont get me wrong Connery was awesome. since he is the original. i just prefer Craig over him.

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    #12
    notlim naneek wrote:
    in a physical, believable agent i say Craig.
    See, thats not even how Bond was originally written - he was slight.

    Craig is just Bond updated for the Bourne generation.

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    #13
    gwarden wrote:
    See, thats not even how Bond was originally written - he was slight.

    Craig is just Bond updated for the Bourne generation.
    yes but im not worried about how it was written. im just saying if there was an agent doing what he does, there would definitly be a need for physicality. plus i wouldve thought you agreed as connery was a physically fit man also, one of the reasons he was more believable also. realism.

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    #14
    bradc wrote:
    I take it you've never heard of an NSX.
    I used to work in a shop next door to a guy who owned one.

    bradc wrote:
    A huge chunk of Wii buyers just aren't interested in the sorts of titles a PS3 or 360 owner would be envious of, just as the bulk of Honda owners aren't interested in uneconomical supercars. Just check out the top selling Wii games. There have been some genuinely good Wii games that cater more towards hardcore gamers that don't even feature.
    Again, you're missing the point. Read the damned article, his logic is impeccable. Nintendo is very good at using 'casual' titles as a gateway drug to more complex ones.

    bradc wrote:
    And yesterdays casual gamers weren't old and/or female.
    Wait. You're implying that old and/or female gamers can't become hardcore in the way that mid-20-something's of the previous gaming generation have? If so, you obviously haven't been in a WoW guild lately...


    Anyway, to re-butcher you illustration : There will always be people who demand a Ferrari and won't settle for an upbadged Honda. That's not the point. The point is that Honda's probably outsell Ferarris 1000-to-1, and they do just as happily by selling high end RSX Accords as they do by selling Civics. Whereas Ferrari only has one string to it's bow and therefore is destined to remain a niche market.

    In the same way, so long as Xbox and PS3 largely design their entire system around hardcore gamers (and occasionally condescend to make a game for casual gamers when they completely fail to understand the market), they will have a tough time against a company that can leverage the might of the casual market and upsell a few along the way.

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    #15
    notlim naneek wrote:
    realism.
    not really a huge catchword for the franchise

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    #16
    gwarden wrote:
    not really a huge catchword for the franchise
    lol agree with you there

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    #17
    Brosnan is the business tbh. Craig just doesn't convey the whole suave british spy thing very well.

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    #18
    yeeeeeeee


    would actually be cool if all bonds were available in multiplayer

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    #19
    Fortris wrote:
    Again, you're missing the point. Read the damned article, his logic is impeccable.
    I'm not going to read the article, because it's too long. His logic sounds good in theory (and correct me if I'm off on it); massive install base = transfer that install base into hardcore titles.
    Fortris wrote:
    Wait. You're implying that old and/or female gamers can't become hardcore in the way that mid-20-something's of the previous gaming generation have?
    Not in a way that'll produce hardcore titles that are the envy of today's hardcore gamers on the other two platforms.
    Fortris wrote:
    If so, you obviously haven't been in a WoW guild lately...
    Or ever, for that matter.
    Fortris wrote:
    In the same way, so long as Xbox and PS3 largely design their entire system around hardcore gamers (and occasionally condescend to make a game for casual gamers when they completely fail to understand the market), they will have a tough time against a company that can leverage the might of the casual market and upsell a few along the way.
    Dude, your assertion (which you're prepared to bet on) is that the Wii is going to produce comparable titles as is on the PS3/360 which will outsell them purely down to the Wii sneaking in at the casual level and grabbing itself a massive install base, then migrating those casual gamers over to more hardcore titles. But those titles have appeared on the Wii, and haven't sold well at all, because the average Wii owner isn't interested (in fact, the best selling 'hardcore' titles on the Wii are release titles like CoD and Red Steel - I suspect the buyers of those titles have long since abandoned the Wii as their console for hardcore gaming). They want to work out, emulate sports, or play Mario titles, and this is where developers are going to put the bulk of their efforts because the paydirt isn't there for more hardcore titles.

    So yeah, I'm going to be thick enough to take your bet, just name the terms.

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    #20
    bradc wrote:
    Not in a way that'll produce hardcore titles that are the envy of today's hardcore gamers on the other two platforms.
    Who said anything about envy? No doubt the PS3 and Xbox gamers will scoff at the 'casual friendly' mid-end games starting to come out on the Wii. I never said they would envy it. What i said is they'll stand in incomprehension as the 'casual friendly' game they scoff at will massively outsell anything equivalent on their beloved, hardcore, pat-ourselves-on-the-back-coz-we're-in-the-self-appointed-cool-club circle jerk consoles.

    As for your last point, here, i'll snip the relevant bit of the article. And he's right. Where is the PSP now? All the 'hardcore' games ended up on the casual-friendly DS...

    Go back in time and look at the DS which was hated by the industry (who analysts referred to it as Nintendo doing another Virtual Boy). The industry did not understand the platform and just dumped many PSP ports or mini-game collections on it. While this was going on, Nintendo focused on the downmarket with games such as Brain Age and Nintendogs as well as a few tiers above that with New Super Mario Brothers. After a year on the market, Super Mario Kart DS and Animal Crossing DS came out. As you know, games like Brain Age and Nintendogs became huge hits which attracted new gamers. And these new gamers then swam upmarket to turn Mario Kart DS, New Super Mario Brothers, and Animal Crossing DS into huge hits (than they would have been without those lower tier games). The installed base for the DS surged which attracted more third party support but mostly meant support for upper market games such as Dragon Quest IX and the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest remakes. As the DS swam upstream, the uppermarket games that were coming on the PSP began to be stolen by the DS.

    The Wii is advancing in the same way. Nintendo focused on the downmarket with games such as Wii Sports, Wii Play, and Wii Fit which all became hits. Third parties become confused and made mini-game compilations. After a year, slightly higher tier Nintendo games come out such as Mario Kart Wii and Super Smash Brothers Brawl and Super Mario Galaxy. These games will become bigger hits because of the success of lower tier games such as Wii Sports sending new consumers upstream. Just as the DS has become the darling of hardcore gamers, so too will the Wii as the system moves upstream.

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    #21
    Fortris wrote:
    Who said anything about envy? No doubt the PS3 and Xbox gamers will scoff at the 'casual friendly' mid-end games starting to come out on the Wii. I never said they would envy it. What i said is they'll stand in incomprehension as the 'casual friendly' game they scoff at will massively outsell anything equivalent on their beloved, hardcore, pat-ourselves-on-the-back-coz-we're-in-the-self-appointed-cool-club circle jerk consoles.
    You didn't say 'casual friendly' mid-end game, you said:
    Fortris wrote:
    So i suspect what you'll see is : A well crafted game that PS3 and Xbox lovers will poohoo, and then gnash their teeth in incomprehension as it goes on to massively outsell any equivalent game on either of those platforms.
    So I don't know what you're talking about now. Sounds like you're saying the Wii would sell a lot more of some sort of simple, pick up and play title (like a Mario game) that's less involved than a traditional hardcore title than the same sort of thing on a 360 or PS3? Well duh.
    Fortris wrote:
    As for your last point, here, i'll snip the relevant bit of the article. And he's right. Where is the PSP now? All the 'hardcore' games ended up on the casual-friendly DS...
    Yeah well the PSP's a bit of a silly product, it's a handheld PS2 with shitter controls, whereas the DS is a more unique handheld experience. I binned mine after a couple of months and have a DS still after 4 years.

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    #22
    bradc wrote:
    So I don't know what you're talking about now. Sounds like you're saying the Wii would sell a lot more of some sort of simple, pick up and play title (like a Mario game) that's less involved than a traditional hardcore title than the same sort of thing on a 360 or PS3? Well duh.
    OK. Clarification. I'm saying that when, not if, a 'hardcore' title releases for Nintendo that is of the caliber of the equivalent titles on the other two consoles (FPS, RPG, whatever), it will outstrip from a sales perspective anything released up to that point on either of the other 2. Bit hard to put a time frame on it, obviously, but when such occurance happens, feel free to necro this thread and remind me I owe you a twenty if my prediction doesn't hold true, and i'll vice versa.

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    #23
    But they've already done that, and such titles have sold extremely poorly. "Mad World" being one off the top of my head, which sold only 100,000 copies or something really low despite critical acclaim.

    Sales of mature/hardcore titles on the Wii have actually declined since the console's release, and again it's likely for the reason I mentioned above, the sort of people that want to buy really good FPS/RPG whatever titles have ditched the Wii, and it's current audience aren't looking for that sort of experience. If and when they do, it'll come in a format that's not really comparable. Mario Kart's sold more than Forza, but they're apples and oranges.

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    #24
    The Honda/Ferrari argument is a red herring. I'm sure most people with a Civic would gladly trade it for a 430 Scuderia if they cost the same amount of money. But they don't.

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    #25
    craig? really? how can they call this goldeneye! brosnan was the best!