[Please Read] Important VDSL Information

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  1. Post
    #1
    There has been a few threads on VDSL2 services now that it's a mainstream product. And theres a few points that need to be made.

    Please have a quick read
    This thread should answer several of the most common questions

    This thread on Geekzone has a lot of technical information and is worth a look, but heres some key points below. Please post anything you think is worth adding but i want to keep this fairly concise.
    http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp...topicid=105744
    Credit goes to the users that built up that thread for a lot of this info

    • Wiring quality is important
      Borrowing an image from geekzone:

      VDSL uses a wider and higher range of frequencies, so is far more affected by line faults or poor wiring than ADSL is. Either a master filter install or direct wiring to the modem only is essential for the best performance. Poor wiring will result in extremely poor performance and/or a worse DLM profile to be assigned to counter errors. Long lines will also see very poor performance or not be eligible for VDSL2 for this reason.
      Because of the increase in range of frequencies, attenuation will increase by several dB over ADSL2+, which is normal.
    • DLM (and interleaving) is automatic
      DLM is Dynamic Line Management. This automatically adjusts your line to the best available performance and ensures stability.
      Important points:
      1. You, the ISP and Chorus cannot override DLM.
      2. Interleaving will likely be added unless you have excellent line condition
      3. DLM will be adjusting on a daily basis for the first 10 days of your connection.

      During the 10 day period, your performance will likely improve. Try not to mess with your line during this time. If you must, leave the modem off for 10-15 minutes when doing so - reportedly long enough for it not to interpret it as a dropped line.
      Because of interleaving, on VDSL unless your line is short or in good condition (therefore on the DLM-1 profile), you will likely have higher ping than uninterleaved ADSL2+. Only DLM-1 will not add latency, and in many cases have lower latency than uninterleaved ADSL2+.
      DLM is affected by several factors including attenuation, SNR and error rates.
    • There are two types of line profile
      DLM Profile defines your latency and impulse noise protection. Your profile can be determined by matching up the table with the stats in your modem. These will change a lot during the first 10 days, and continue to adjust as necessary.
      Profile name - Interleaving depth - INP
      DLM-1 1ms 0INP

      DLM-2 8ms 0INP
      DLM-4 8ms 1INP
      DLM-6 8ms 2INP

      DLM-3 16ms 0INP
      DLM-5 16ms 1INP
      DLM-7 16ms 2INP
      DLM-8 16ms 4INP
      Line profile is reported as either 8b or 17a.
      -8b is up to 50/10
      -17a is up to 70/10

      These profiles are assigned by DLM. All users start on 8b and most remain on it.
      As a general indication, you must have an attenuation of approximately 8dB or below to have a chance to be upgraded to 17a. This sort of attenuation is usually only possible with lines of 400m length or below. As mentioned above, because this is part of DLM, this is also automatic.


    Please contribute any other important points that all users should know. That's enough for now, time to celebrate my birthday!

  2. Post
    #2
    Good stuff

    May or may not want to include a section on what modems are available/recommended? Or at least mention that a standard ADSL modem is no good with VDSL, or even what ISPs are providing...

  3. Post
    #3
    ISP's offering VDSL

    Spark NZ
    Snap!
    Vodafone NZ
    BigPipe
    Orcon
    Voyager
    Full Flavour Media
    Actrix
    Lightwire
    KiwiLink
    Vibe
    WorldNet
    KiwiLink
    Slingshot NZ
    HD
    PrimoWireless (Taranaki)


    VDSL2 Modems

    ISP (RSP) Supplied

    Spark NZ TG589vn (Wifi quirks, single band) / Huawei HG630b* / Huawei HG659 * (Business Modem)
    Vodafone NZ Huawei HG659*
    Orcon Orcon Genius White (Netcomm NF4V)*
    Actrix / KiwiLink / WorldNet Technicolor TG789vn*
    Snap! Fritz!Box 7340 (Does not support Bridging. Dual Band (Not Simultaneous), 2 LAN Ports)
    Snap! Fritz!Box 7390* (Does not support Bridging. Simultaneous Dual Band, 512MB memory)
    KiwiLink / Voyager (?) Cisco 887V* (Business Grade)
    KiwiLink / FFM / WorldNet Innbox V50-U
    Actrix Netcomm DYX9667R (Budget)
    Actrix Alcatel Cellpipe 7130 (Budget)
    HD Iskratel Innbox V50-U
    Slingshot Energy Imports VB104W

    NZ Shops

    Asus DSL-AC68U*
    Asus DSL-N66U*
    Cisco 867VAE (Business Grade)
    DrayTek Vigor 130**
    DrayTek Vigor2760*
    DrayTek Vigor2760n*
    DrayTek Vigor2750*
    DrayTek Vigor2850*
    Netsys NV-600
    Netcomm NF4V*
    ZyXEL Prestige 870H-51A V2*
    TP-Link N600 (TD-W9980)*

    * (Recommended)
    * Single port modem/router (no wifi), requires a switch or multi port router for multiple computers


    VDSL Settings

    Operating Mode: VDSL2
    PPP Protocol: PPPoE
    Username: user@domain.co.nz
    Password: password
    Auth Type: PAP
    Encapsulation: 802.1Q
    PCP Marking: 0
    VID.: 10
    MTU: 1500 or AUTO
    Last edited by Jarsky; 4th January 2015 at 1:38 pm.

  4. Post
    #4
    Shouldn't MTU be 1492 for PPPoE not 1500?

  5. Post
    #5
    Sure, if it was a standard PPPoE connection.
    Then again, a standard PPPoA should be 1452 but you'll find theres no issue setting it higher.

    Telecom/Chorus like to do a lot of electronic wizardry behind the scenes

  6. Post
    #6
    thanks for this post, helped me alot, i just order SNAP vdsl2!!! hope everything goes smooothly!

  7. Post
    #7
    Just ordered Telecom VDSL, i'm hopeful that my connection issues will be fixed, quick question though, if i don't want to use the wifi built in, can i just lan cable it up to my linksys x3500? I'm assuming it'd be better quality

  8. Post
    #8
    Yes.

  9. Post
    #9
    It's also important to know that Chorus are required to install CAT6 cabling if there is no existing CAT5 or better when installing VDSL. Be aware that the technicians will do anything they can to avoid installing CAT6, even to the point of lying outright to their field managers that the house has CAT5 already. If they didn't install CAT6 when setting up your VDSL (and you don't already have CAT5 wiring), contact your service provider and Chorus will be required to return and install CAT6. CAT6 will make a massive difference to your signal quality.

    This is actually what happened to us when they installed our VDSL. I made the mistake of leaving the house while the technician did the install. I'm still arguing with Chorus (via Telecom) as to whether the house (which is > 100yrs old) has existing CAT5 or not as that was the technicians excuse to his field manager for not installing CAT6.

  10. Post
    #10
    Jarsky wrote:

    Telecom/Chorus like to do a lot of electronic wizardry behind the scenes


    Indeed.


    But if you can get VDSL def go for it, its a nice simpler alternative to getting fibre installed, especially in those rented homes. Big speed increase here

    Most companies should have a set minimum of 15mbps up and 5 down. Most will get a lot more d/l than that. Also remember though they can take up to 10 days to 'tweak' the line/speed.

  11. Post
    #11
    noted. Will make sure i see it going in before i shoot back to work.

  12. Post
    #12
    tobyjohnson wrote:
    It's also important to know that Chorus are required to install CAT6 cabling if there is no existing CAT5 or better when installing VDSL. Be aware that the technicians will do anything they can to avoid installing CAT6, even to the point of lying outright to their field managers that the house has CAT5 already. If they didn't install CAT6 when setting up your VDSL (and you don't already have CAT5 wiring), contact your service provider and Chorus will be required to return and install CAT6. CAT6 will make a massive difference to your signal quality.

    This is actually what happened to us when they installed our VDSL. I made the mistake of leaving the house while the technician did the install. I'm still arguing with Chorus (via Telecom) as to whether the house (which is > 100yrs old) has existing CAT5 or not as that was the technicians excuse to his field manager for not installing CAT6.
    Yip a lot of the chorus techs are dodgy as hell. The neg feedback we get about them is worrying.

  13. Post
    #13
    The Padre wrote:
    Yip a lot of the chorus techs are dodgy as hell. The neg feedback we get about them is worrying.
    Cause they are getting screwed over. Cant really blame them either after the shit they have to deal with (in terms of getting paid)

  14. Post
    #14
    undead_knight wrote:
    Cause they are getting screwed over. Cant really blame them either after the shit they have to deal with (in terms of getting paid)
    Well, they have a job, they need to do it right or get out. Why should the customer have to cop their indifference.

  15. Post
    #15
    The Padre wrote:
    Well, they have a job, they need to do it right or get out. Why should the customer have to cop their indifference.
    I think he is referring to internal issues. These sort of technicians are contractors, and get paid by the job - not by the hour. I have heard of the odd horror story where some contractors are owed months worth of jobs.

    Here's the story: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA130...rkers-paid.htm

    As for CAT5 vs CAT6, I don't really see why they should be using CAT6 when CAT5 is dirt cheap in comparison. I do agree though that it should be one of the two. Unless they are looking to upgrade VDSL service to support 30a (which ideally would only be over coax anyway) then the max transmission speeds would be irrelevant for current 8b/17a profiles. Remember VDSL is only available as a stop gap during the Fibre roll out. It is intended to be phased out of Fibre areas as we get further into the FTTH project.

  16. Post
    #16
    tobyjohnson wrote:
    It's also important to know that Chorus are required to install CAT6 cabling if there is no existing CAT5 or better when installing VDSL. Be aware that the technicians will do anything they can to avoid installing CAT6, even to the point of lying outright to their field managers that the house has CAT5 already. If they didn't install CAT6 when setting up your VDSL (and you don't already have CAT5 wiring), contact your service provider and Chorus will be required to return and install CAT6. CAT6 will make a massive difference to your signal quality.

    This is actually what happened to us when they installed our VDSL. I made the mistake of leaving the house while the technician did the install. I'm still arguing with Chorus (via Telecom) as to whether the house (which is > 100yrs old) has existing CAT5 or not as that was the technicians excuse to his field manager for not installing CAT6.
    wow you weren't even joking, turned up late and tried using the old phone line, I told him that if he's willing to put his name to the fact that the existing wiring was fine that i'd sign off the job on the provider that if there was an issue he'd be refunding the cost of install and coming back in his own time to fix it, he didn't want to do that so he's now running cat 6 through the roof.

  17. Post
    #17
    Se7enSgX wrote:
    wow you weren't even joking, turned up late and tried using the old phone line, I told him that if he's willing to put his name to the fact that the existing wiring was fine that i'd sign off the job on the provider that if there was an issue he'd be refunding the cost of install and coming back in his own time to fix it, he didn't want to do that so he's now running cat 6 through the roof.
    Yep. It's been almost 3 months and we're still waiting to even hear from Chorus (last we heard the field manager said the technician said there was already Cat5, which we only heard from Telecom and we responded with 'WTF??? The house is 100yrs old'). Most of these technicians need a minder, they can't even be trusted to do their own job. How systemically corrupt must an organisation be for it's staff to deliberately circumvent basic procedures because it's too much work, then lie about it when it's called out and the organisation not to even call the complainant (let alone investigate).

  18. Post
    #18
    I'm getting Telecom VDSL installed on Friday.

    They called me up one night and asked if I wanted to switch from ADSL to VDSL with no extra monthly cost. Then he tried to get me to pay a $99 installation fee to which I declined and he all of a sudden decided he would do it for free.

    So they sent me a modem (which is apparently worth $299) for free and will do the installation for free. Can't complain for getting it at the same price as ADSL.

    I live in Tauranga and I'm less than 100m from the exchange.

    These are my current speeds:



    Will be interesting to see how much or if the download speeds change.

  19. Post
    #19
    noresponse wrote:
    I'm getting Telecom VDSL installed on Friday.

    They called me up one night and asked if I wanted to switch from ADSL to VDSL with no extra monthly cost. Then he tried to get me to pay a $99 installation fee to which I declined and he all of a sudden decided he would do it for free.

    So they sent me a modem (which is apparently worth $299) for free and will do the installation for free. Can't complain for getting it at the same price as ADSL.

    I live in Tauranga and I'm less than 100m from the exchange.

    These are my current speeds:



    Will be interesting to see how much or if the download speeds change.
    speeds?

    also my folks place says VDSL is available, do chrous still need to apply cat5/cat6 cables? I doubt anything has been upgraded since AGES ago.
    cheers guys

  20. Post
    #20
    Chorus had to postpone and came today instead.

    Straight away after the install I got:


    I expect this to increase within the next 10 days.


    And yes they will rewire the entire house with cat6 if the house has poor wiring. (I had already rewired my house when I bought it a few years ago)

  21. Post
    #21
    nice. how do I ensure new wiring if the house has poor wiring, or how do I establish if it has poor wiring? besides knowing the connection on 3 separate ips speed all suck.

  22. Post
    #22
    Should say on the cable what type it is. If what the chorus guy told me is correct then anything less than cat5 will be replaced.

    Its just procedure for them to replace the wires, other than that I think they can do interference tests etc. As stated in OP, VDSL really requires quality wiring.

  23. Post
    #23
    cheers bro. I'll be slutted if they tried to flag upgrading shit just to go home early lmao....

  24. Post
    #24
    Hey,

    So I've just moved to NZ, and dont really know much about anything. I just signed up to Snap VDSL, it was installed today. I decided not to go for the Fritz!Box as it seemed quite expensive and the guy I spoke to on the phone said VDSL routers were readily available in stores. This doesn't appear to be the case, I'm really struggling to find anything here in Wellington.

    I'm not really looking to spend too much money as I don't know how long I'll be in the country for, I just need something simple and reliable. I saw that Telecom are selling their VDSL router for $159, which seems pretty reasonable. Can I use this with my Snap connection? If not, any ideas what else I can do, or am I going to have to fork out $300+ on a Fritz!box or Draytek modem router?

    Thanks for your help.

  25. Post
    #25
    pretty sure there is fibre in wellington already bro?