BigPipe Broadband

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  1. Post
    #26
    Ragnor wrote:
    In their geekzone threads I asked roughly what there traffic management plan/policy is.

    It appears they don't have a plan, so to me it looks like the same old naive Go Large / Big Time approach....

    /yawn
    bandwidth has come down in price since then, if they allocated 1 megabit international per user they'd probably be fine.

    also lots of traffic volume comes from things like youtube which are even cheaper.

  2. Post
    #27
    +1 it's not 2009 anymore, the tubes are much bigger nowadays (that's end-to-end not just the international).
    Take all that file sharing traffic back then it's now all YouTube etc.
    Major ISPs easily have more YouTube traffic nowadays than they had international traffic back in 2009.

  3. Post
    #28
    Jarsky wrote:
    It is paid for by Telecom, but its as seperate as Skinny is. It's its own ISP, with its own core network, systems, staff, etc...
    Yeah, thats how I understood it too Thanks for confirming!

  4. Post
    #29
    tehyitz wrote:
    +1 it's not 2009 anymore, the tubes are much bigger nowadays (that's end-to-end not just the international).
    Take all that file sharing traffic back then it's now all YouTube etc.
    Major ISPs easily have more YouTube traffic nowadays than they had international traffic back in 2009.
    Wait, what? The tubes are significantly bigger? What gives you that idea?

    And the only reason YouTube works smoothly is a majority of popular content is cached locally. SPs have to pay Google out the arse for these caches (not to mention the equipment costs). I wouldn't anticipate a small time ISP could afford a sizable local cache. Despite being 2013 (like that actually means anything), YT performance drops off significantly if you aren't accessing cached content.

  5. Post
    #30
    ^http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/522...00g_expansion/
    +there have been a multitude of other pipelines/networks and peering arrangements, including some backbone work with choruses network and other thingy majigs to improve throughput aswell. But Sir tehyitz, can answer you :3

    ps:come play some ns

  6. Post
    #31
    iRoN wrote:
    Wait, what? The tubes are significantly bigger? What gives you that idea?
    1) More ADSL2+ services with transition from BUBA to EUBA (and onto VDSL/UFB)
    2) Foregone handover link dimensioning policies and expansion in backhaul/nationwide PoPs (brand new core network kit)
    3) International capacity expansion now in steps of 20 Gbps (trans-Tasman peering/CDNs).

    1, 2 are inter-related really and 3 is more of a consequence.

  7. Post
    #32
    iRoN wrote:
    Wait, what? The tubes are significantly bigger? What gives you that idea?

    And the only reason YouTube works smoothly is a majority of popular content is cached locally. SPs have to pay Google out the arse for these caches (not to mention the equipment costs). I wouldn't anticipate a small time ISP could afford a sizable local cache. Despite being 2013 (like that actually means anything), YT performance drops off significantly if you aren't accessing cached content.
    i think that's just youtube sucking. they have weird chunking things etc which can screw with tcp/ip performance.

    http://wand.net.nz/sites/default/files/youtube_ccr.pdf

  8. Post
    #33
    iRoN wrote:
    Wait, what? The tubes are significantly bigger? What gives you that idea?
    As tehyitz pointed out there has been substantial uptake/migration to EUBA over the last few years, as well as network upgrades with FTTN, as well as core backhaul upgrades. Also the SXC optical terminals have been updated increasing the capacity on int'l also (even though it wasnt near capacity)

    iRoN wrote:
    And the only reason YouTube works smoothly is a majority of popular content is cached locally. SPs have to pay Google out the arse for these caches (not to mention the equipment costs). I wouldn't anticipate a small time ISP could afford a sizable local cache. Despite being 2013 (like that actually means anything), YT performance drops off significantly if you aren't accessing cached content.

    Yup some ISP's have akamai caches on their network as well as caching farms, and there are also akamai caches in Sydney.
    YouTube also has a newer way of buffering called Dash Playback, that buffers it a bit at the time to increase the overall performance.
    So basically you dont have people sitting there with 1080p, buffering the whole thing @ 20-30Mbit in one go.

  9. Post
    #34
    I'm aware of these developments...but despite this, I can confirm at least two of the top four ISPs in NZ haven't increased their international bandwidth one bit....they're still paying for and utilising the same bandwidth they were when I last checked (circa 2010). In fact, I have a sneaking suspicion (but this is NOT confirmed) VF + TCL may now have less international bandwidth now than they did before the merger...

    Making the pipe bigger doesn't mean SPs are buying more bandwidth. My inside knowledge might not be as good as it used to be now that I'm on the network side of things though.

    Agreed national backhaul will be in a much better shape with the UBA / VDSL changes across the country.

  10. Post
    #35
    mercutio wrote:
    i think that's just youtube sucking. they have weird chunking things etc which can screw with tcp/ip performance.

    http://wand.net.nz/sites/default/files/youtube_ccr.pdf
    All I can say is that the SPs I've worked for had tremendously poor performance (borderline UNUSABLE) pre-implementing a Google cache. Post implementation, no issues, complaints literally dropped to zero over night.

    Months later when the SP hadn't paid Alcatel for the equipment, and Alcatel took the equipment back, these issues resumed the following day.

    So I don't think it's just "youtube sucking". Admittedly these events occurred 24 months and 12 months ago respectively.

    Jarsky wrote:
    So basically you dont have people sitting there with 1080p, buffering the whole thing @ 20-30Mbit in one go.
    That's good to know any idea when they implemented that?

    They were difficult to work with a couple years back...wouldn't really consider any options for improving performance without us coughing up the $$$ for rights to cache :/



    At the end of the day, everything said here is true and accurate; the market/network is in a situation where if BigPipe is willing to invest enough to make this service work well, it will. The question still remains though, are they willing to invest? Yes they may have to invest less than a similar provider would have a few years back....but that doesn't mean accountants are more eager to spend money than they were in 2009 - they're still after the same margins they were in 2009. The fact that this is being pitched as a cheap spin-off, rather than one of TCNZ Retail's products, leads me to believe this won't be seeing significant investment - it looks like they're trying to isolate their existing branding from the impending failure of BigPipe but that's pure, biased speculation.

    My primary concerns about this is the lack of a transparent policy / terms. Granted it appears to be in a trial phase at the moment?

  11. Post
    #36
    They implemented it a couple of years ago. It's one of the biggest problems with YouTube over the last couple of years. One of the biggest reasons you get videos randomly not loading, stuttering, partial buffering is due to bugs between the server and the browser, and sometimes the network (ISP) in between. The DASH system isnt...."ideal".

  12. Post
    #37
    Go Large, Big Time, Big Pipe: someone at Telecom has a fetish..

  13. Post
    #38
    tehyitz wrote:
    +1 it's not 2009 anymore, the tubes are much bigger nowadays (that's end-to-end not just the international).
    Take all that file sharing traffic back then it's now all YouTube etc.
    Major ISPs easily have more YouTube traffic nowadays than they had international traffic back in 2009.
    Depends entirely on what type of contention ratio(s) BigPipe are gonna run with.

    You don't think it's naive to launch a un-metered plan with no plans in place to manage traffic?

    The usual suspects are gonna hammer the crap out of it...

  14. Post
    #39
    -PH33R- wrote:
    As i understand it they are a group related to telecom - pretty sure they are part of the telecom new ventures group
    I saw you driving the other day, nice car

  15. Post
    #40
    Am I the only one that watch YouTube in 240p?

  16. Post
    #41
    So had my big pipe vdsl connected on thursday and so far so good getting max line speed and decent pings
    Chaos, Disorder, Mayhem .... My work here is done

  17. Post
    #42
    El Hombre wrote:
    Am I the only one that watch YouTube in 240p?
    i watch it in 720/1080p

  18. Post
    #43
    Ragnor wrote:
    Go Large, Big Time, Big Pipe
    Big crowd of people that just want a naked broadband connection of some sort, without data restrictions.
    Why not capitalise on it

  19. Post
    #44
    -PH33R- wrote:
    So had my big pipe vdsl connected on thursday and so far so good getting max line speed and decent pings
    I rest my case

  20. Post
    #45
    Ragnor wrote:
    I rest my case
    what case
    Chaos, Disorder, Mayhem .... My work here is done

  21. Post
    #46
    -PH33R- wrote:
    what case
    headcase

  22. Post
    #47
    Just got invited for this. Not sure if its worth it though. Help make the decision for me, oh great gpforums posters.

  23. Post
    #48
    Why would you register your interest if you're not actually interested?

  24. Post
    #49
    It's probably not worth the risk if you are a gamer playing on overseas servers (eg: dota2, wow, starcraft2, etc), stick with ISP's with known good service/routing/latency.

    However if you are a massive leecher get on while the gettings good before it becomes oversubscribed.

  25. Post
    #50
    Hey guys,

    BigPipe here.
    I've been playing a bit of BF4 on bigpipe VDSL (on PS4), no issues with latency etc that I have noticed. I've also been streaming video in 1080p with no issues at all either.

    We're only taking circa 200 customers on for this trial, and we have plenty of bandwidth to accomodate them. We've got some cool secret plans on how we manage the network that I can't discuss, but can only encourage you to give us a go.
    The proof of the broadband is in the downloading (and uploading)

    teelo6 - we've made the trial as risk-free as possible. There is no cost to sign up (you do need to provide your own modem) and you can leave anytime with no contract break fee, it's also totally free until the end of March, so if you already have an invite it seems a bit of a no-brainer to me.
    If you hate it, you can always switch back to whoever you were with before at anytime. What have you got to lose?

    Happy to answer questions from you guys about us (some things are commercially sensitive I'm sure you will appreciate) and would love to get feedback from any GPforums users who have signed up for the trial. what things have you been doing on your connection, what works well, how was the signup process etc etc