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  1. Post
    #26
    Added incentive.

  2. Post
    #27
    pyrocore wrote:
    Why? In what way do they affect the game experience? Or should I say, how do they improve it for you?

    If I could, I would remove them from every game I have.
    Gets me to do things differently, otherwise I'll just be an unaligned battlemage (or equivalent).

  3. Post
    #28
    Yeah, pretty much. Encourages alternate activities or playstyles or rewards exploration. Just a little something extra gameplay-wise.

    It's still a fun game obviously without achievements (i'm replaying on 360 at the mo and i've got all the achis) but it'd be cool to get them on steam as well.

  4. Post
    #29
    Hey to each to their own. However all I see is a bunch of utterly pointless digital post-its saying you've completed some arbitrary activity, or passed a digital signpost. Pointless, and completely redundant imo.
    Then again 99% of games I play is for the story, so I really am not the audience here. I just dont see the point at all.
    The worst crime though is that sometimes you can't help but see locked achievements that give away plot points, or in-game actions. This has happened a couple of times. **** that shit.

  5. Post
    #30
    pyrocore wrote:
    all I see is a bunch of utterly pointless digital post-its saying you've completed some arbitrary activity, or passed a digital signpost.
    That's exactly what they are, but they make games more gamey, if that makes any sense. They add value to the experience beyond that of just playing it for story or atmosphere.

    They are not always implemented well. The worst are ones awarded for trivial or unavoidable things, or perhaps for slogging through collectible hunts. and as you point out they can even spoil story elements. But the best ones can reveal ways of having fun with a game you may never have discovered. My favourite example of that is Little Rocket Man in HL2:Ep2 http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Garden_Gnome which is the kind of outside-the-box activity you would never bother with if it weren't for the achi, and that ends up being uniquely gratifying (Gnome Chompski even shows up again for a similarly difficult achi in LFD2!)

    For me there is also a pleasing sense of completion associated with completing difficult achis or perhaps obtaining 100% achis. I'm the sort of person who spent hundreds of hours getting 100% completion in GTA 3/VC/SA before there were even such things as achievements (in fact i'm replaying San Andreas since they re-released the Xbox original version with achis). I've got nearly 50k gamescore/ 11 perfect games on my Xbox profile and nearing 2k achievements/ 8 perfect games on my Steam profile. These are totally arbitrary numbers, worse than some players and better than others, they do not get me anything tangible besides being digital representations of the time and effort I have poured into various games over the years.

    Bethesda achis are usually pretty boring unfortunately. They are generally collection/exploration/quest oriented instead of encouraging emergent gameplay. But, in much the same way I originally got 72/75 achis on Fallout:NV on 360 (those 3 Gun Runner Arsenal ones, whilst actually encouraging unique gameplay styles, are a total pain), I puhed myself to get the same 72/75 when I finally got round to playing it on PC as well. I would never have spent another 90 hours playing it on PC if I didn't have the achi grind incentive. So in that way it adds a ton of replay value to a game I had played out.

    In summary, I'd like steam achis for FO:3, please and thank you.

  6. Post
    #31
    I guess we're just different types of gamer. Who'da thunk it.

    Once the story is complete, I usually don't feel like playing more. All of the Beth games I've played are most likely only 75% done at the very most as far as content goes (except oblivion which is much less and got literally shredded for being an insult of a game*). Once I complete the story I see no point in playing more. For me the game is finished, the rest is filler.

    Once I get to the "end" I'm done. I have far too many games, and other things to do than spend countless hours collecting post-its with no payoff. For some the achis are a payoff, just not for me.

    More power to you man. You objectively get more value from your games, but I feel we both get the same amount of enjoyment.






    *yes I did have to include a comment on the shit show that is Oblivion. I mean its me, it was always going to happen.

  7. Post
    #32
    See if I just want a story I watch a movie or tv show. I want my games to offer gamey experiences.

    I should make the point that I really only care about achis in games I love. Like you, I've got too many games to play and not enough time, if I find a game to be average I will complete the story (if that) and nothing more. But boy, if I take to a game I want to complete every possible thing there is to do in that game, I want to explore every nook and cranny and I want to be able show that I did so via the achi system.

    But yeah, I wouldn't say that I necessarily get more enjoyment - or even value - than other players, from treating games like that. I just feel games are uniquely suited to that kind of depth. Though, with tv and film I will often write at length about things I like (or dislike), and in that way derive further pleasure from them. Maybe as a fellow reviewer you too find added value from games by being able to do that.

  8. Post
    #33
    I get both your points but yeah **** achievements, have pre ordered that nuke so awesome

  9. Post
    #34
    Its not about watching a story. Its about being shaping it, evolving it, and most importantly experiencing it as an active participant. Watching a movie and playing a great narrative game are completely different experiences. One is mostly passive the other interactive. That interactivity is why I am a gamer.

    I like being part of the experience. Achievements offer nothing in that regard, which is likely part of the reason I have no interest in them. Hell I noticed that GOG had them in The Witcher 3 when using Galaxy, so I removed it from start-up and don't think I've used it since.

  10. Post
    #35
    I just hope I have shed some light on why achievement hunters like them, because non-achievement hunters always seems so perplexed by them, whereas I always thought their appeal was self evident.

    It also bemuses me that non-achievement hunters always seem so angry that achievements even exist, as if it impacts on their own enjoyment somehow...sometimes I suspect it's just because in the back of their mind something is telling them that they're not enjoying the game in the correct way...

  11. Post
    #36
    I dont know anyone thats angry at them, I have on occasion been pissed off that an uncollected acheivement has reveled a future part of a game. They can also ruin immersion by popping up in-game with the "you have achieved...". **** that. nice way to ruin the mood.

    I hear your reasoning, and still don't see what anyone would bother outside of saying "well I got all the achievements". Arbitrary things like that just strike me as a waste of time. Much like collectibles in a game. I just cant see them as anything more than lazy padding.

    But if people like collecting them who I am to judge? I don't like them, others do. That's cool.

    If there is any resentment its that I have no way of turning them off. They are always there popping up and telling me shit I dont care about.

  12. Post
    #37
    Gwarden wrote:
    ...sometimes I suspect it's just because in the back of their mind something is telling them that they're not enjoying the game in the correct way...
    Now you're just being a patronising douche.

  13. Post
    #38
    Lashings and lashings of irony, almost unbearable amounts of irony, irony dripping from every pore, irony all over the carpet and curtains

  14. Post
    #39
    I guess the only reason I asked, was that I didnt understand why thet were important enough to affect a replay decision, and well even after all you've said (and I sincerely appreciate that you've taken the time to do so) I still don't see why replaying the game is only desirable if there are achievements. Seems to me that replaying the game is about enjoying the game again. I can see the achievements being a bonus for those interested, but I just cant get to grips with their absence being a deal breaker. Like it makes the game worse for them not being available.

    Its likely that we're just wired very differently, and this is just another thing that we will not agree on. But that's cool. Enjoyment is subjective and all that. I don't get why people play MMOs for hundreds of hours, or can play CS or COD for years and years either. Although with the latter I do get the competitive aspect as being a motivator.

    e - I didn't interpret anything you said as being patronizing btw. Thats usually far more my style than yours.

  15. Post
    #40
    people used to explore and play in all kinds of ways way before achievements showed up. but at the same time aren't achievement hunters the ones that do not explore the game properly? they just read the description of an achievement and try to attain them instead of experimenting and finding out for themselves? check m8 m0

    i like playing games the way i want to. u can even go as far as to say that in order to get achievements u are forced to complete tasks that aren't enjoyable and make the game even more "narrow". achievements encourage you to play the way dev wants u too.

  16. Post
    #41
    They don't necessarily preclude you from playing organically. I always play a game to completion first without looking at the achievement list, it's not until the second run through that I will specifically target achievements.

    At the end of the day though, it's however you personally want to play the game right? There's no right or wrong way of doing it.

  17. Post
    #42
    Gwarden wrote:
    T
    At the end of the day though, it's however you personally want to play the game right? There's no right or wrong way of doing it.
    This. Achievements appeal to some and not others.

    I find in games like JRPG's or RPG'S it validates you completing the really hard bosses and\or extras.

    It's just an arbitrary thing, I remember my co-worker mocking me for getting my first plat saying "what do you gain from it? Are you going to try impressing chicks with your trophies?".
    I just responded "how many chicks do you pick up with your 8 Max level WoW characters?".

    I find it satisfying when a trophy\achievement pops, but will never ruin a game experience going for 100%, when I'm bored I stop.


    Need to get this though as I haven't played the original games.

  18. Post
    #43
    I like achievements that give a reward(seems to be an mmo thing) or are for doing something fun/unique

    I don't like achievements that pop up when you finish a chapter or other generic things like that.

  19. Post
    #44
    CODChimera wrote:
    I like achievements that give a reward(seems to be an mmo thing) or are for doing something fun/unique

    I don't like achievements that pop up when you finish a chapter or other generic things like that.
    This^