Brexit.

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  1. Post
    #51
    sorceror wrote:
    pretty much. democracy is a great concept, but in practice... you get Trump.
    You're confusing the US with a democracy.

  2. Post
    #52
    Cynic wrote:
    And there are politicians tapping into that to get just bad policies voted in. Whether you like the EU or not, and there are a lot of reasons not to (as you say it is a horrendous beast of a bureaucracy), the UK is going to wake up in a far less friendly world. Their currency has gone into freefall, their market is likely to see well over 100 Billion pounds wiped off within the first hour of trading, and any one whose business relies on export to the EU no longer has a good idea of whether they still have a business. Economies and markets hate uncertainty, and this it the ultimate in uncertainty because the UK needs to negiotate what access it will get and is likely to face a very spiteful EU across the table. This is not a good outcome for the UK, and yet Farage has tapped into the angry and disenfranchised to get it done. Not because it is a good thing, but because he wanted it.
    Of course they do. That's politics. And yes, it's gonna hurt right now, but the EU is hardly a bastion of economic prowess. It's currency is in big trouble. Italy is ****ed. France is on the same trajectory. It's difficult to say, long term, what the best decision would have been, but when shit hits the fan, at least they'll have their independence.

  3. Post
    #53
    Saw a brief summary from an economist as follows:

    There are four major areas of concern;

    * London is the financial center of the EU because the UK is both in the EU and is relatively friendly to financial services. Absent the UK having a regulatory treaty with the EU (which they can't without being part of the EU) financial services will be forced to move to the mainland. Even prior the vote there was work underway on this, the first movements will begin to occur in a couple of weeks. Several other sectors are similarly at risk.
    When the UK leaves it has no trade treaties with any other country in the world. This means all British goods will incur new or higher tariffs in all trading partner countries, British goods become more expensive when compared to comparable goods produced elsewhere. There is not a magic button here, it typically takes decades to either create new treaties or join an existing one.

    * If the UK decides it wants access to the single market it also needs to adopt single market rules, effectively accepting all EU regulation but without having any voice in that regulation. That's assuming France & Germany don't just block UK access to the single market out of spite.

    * The UK no longer has visa free access to EU states and the same is true of the EU to the UK. There are enormous numbers of British ex-pats who live on the continent and enormous numbers of non-UK EU citizens who live in the UK. Even if the UK & EU manage to push through a very hasty set of reforms allowing those who have lived there for n years to remain we are still talking about pretty significant labor displacement & disruption.

    * When every major central bank in the world have brought in extra staff and have prepared their emergency liquidity facilities you are going to have a bad day. I expect the pound to hit dollar equality tomorrow, its going to be the ERM disaster on steroids.

  4. Post
    #54
    Additionally, can someone ELI5 why despite being in the EU the UK never adopted the euro? Seems like those should go hand in hand? Were they always kind of on the edge of things?

  5. Post
    #55
    s0cks wrote:
    Meh, it seems to be the result of an ever increasing population that feels disenfranchised and extremely fed up. I think too many people wrongly blame that on immigrants, but the EU is an undemocratic, corporate loving, excessively bureaucratic monster. Good on the UK imo.
    As I always said ...

    This is the New World Order

    0.01%ers > 1%ers > Corporates > Governments > People



    Us 'peasants' are so far down the pecking order now, this 'Brexit' vote is very much a protest vote against this 'NWO'

  6. Post
    #56
    Clavulanate wrote:
    Additionally, can someone ELI5 why despite being in the EU the UK never adopted the euro? Seems like those should go hand in hand? Were they always kind of on the edge of things?
    Not all the members of the EU adopted the Euro. Mostly for economic reasons. Looks like it was a good choice.

    As for every leaver being racist. Nah, not all. The whole referendum had the typical anti-establishment feel to it that is becoming ever more common.

  7. Post
    #57
    They voted out.

    52/48

    Another reason not to hold referendums, hugely divisive results.

  8. Post
    #58
    Zarkov wrote:
    It's because of Muslims.
    Unfortunately, it is.

    Fear mongering around migration and the fact that "Those dirty muslims are coming into our country, taking our jobs and raping our women" - anyone else feel confident about Trump being defeated?

  9. Post
    #59
    at the moment 250 foreign banks employ 160,000 people in the UK because London is the financial centre of europe, now that will probably move to Frankfurt taking the majority of Banks with them . The big car firms which employ 700,000 workers are worried that without Tariff free access to Europe, then they may have to move to compete.

  10. Post
    #60
    Fella wrote:
    anyone else feel confident about Trump being defeated?
    Voting for Trump could also be a protest vote like the 'Brexit' vote. The so-called 'establishment' need to watch themselves from now on. A revolution may have begun and there will be much turmoil to come.

  11. Post
    #61
    Nonsense Fella and Zarkov.Whilst I dont blame them for not wanting to open the flood gates like Merkel did, that is only one tiny reason of the many and this issue has been brewing since the EU's inception. They are sick of Brussels having a lot of say in terms of what they can and cant do. Money that have to contribute. Possible inevitablity of adopting the Euro. Laws they have to adopt, trade agreements that may effect their own people. Sick of Austerity measures and useless partners not pulling their weight (Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece) Already England is full of Muslims, as is every European country now. A lot of English are not fans or countries like Romania and Poland joining the EU and all the workers that flocked their that they perceptively think took all their jobs. Im sure there are many more reasons.
    Its a multi faceted issue.

  12. Post
    #62
    Migrant crisis exposed how fragile the EU to the common person showing states are not really committed to assisting each other, and ultimately powerless to deal with any crisis.

  13. Post
    #63
    oh lame, i just realized this will mean my UK passport is no longer free access to all of the EU.. now I care! CHANGE THE VOTE!

  14. Post
    #64

    Brexit.

    KiwiTT wrote:
    Voting for Trump could also be a protest vote like the 'Brexit' vote. The so-called 'establishment' need to watch themselves from now on. A revolution may have begun and there will be much turmoil to come.
    Odd how people cry about the establishment taking money from Wall Street so protest by voting trump. Yeah trump is Wall Street lol.




    Also what happens to eu immigrants living in the uk now? Have 2 years then **** off? Or they just going to issue a shit tonne of visas? Sounds like a nightmare tbh.


    I'm guessing Scotland will want to leave uk and go for membership InThe eu now

  15. Post
    #65
    Clavulanate wrote:
    oh lame, i just realized this will mean my UK passport is no longer free access to all of the EU.. now I care! CHANGE THE VOTE!
    Besides a UK one, I can get an Irish one, so i'm sorted

    A lot of Brits with Irish ancestry have been doing this in the last year, fearing this would happen.

  16. Post
    #66
    Clavulanate wrote:
    oh lame, i just realized this will mean my UK passport is no longer free access to all of the EU.. now I care! CHANGE THE VOTE!
    I was just thinking about that. Does this make my British passport less effective?

  17. Post
    #67
    Cant get either
    Or Id mostl likely still be there. Hated by the Poms for taking their jobs, money and women.

  18. Post
    #68
    Of course, you will now need a visa to get into the EU countries, LOL
    A British passport is practically useless now

    KiwiTT wrote:
    Voting for Trump could also be a protest vote like the 'Brexit' vote. The so-called 'establishment' need to watch themselves from now on. A revolution may have begun and there will be much turmoil to come.
    This. The Western world is heading back to conservatism

  19. Post
    #69
    Humans are rarely rational entities, most of us live in fantasy lands. Democracy isn't plausible without a change in consciousness.

  20. Post
    #70
    bradc wrote:
    Humans are rarely rational entities
    Stopped reading there


    :edit: im retarded, I read rational as emotional... carry on

  21. Post
    #71
    This act with need to be repealed as well. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe..._Act_1972_(UK)

  22. Post
    #72
    Clavulanate wrote:
    Stopped reading there


    :edit: im retarded, I read rational as emotional... carry on
    Oh we're all pretty emotional.

  23. Post
    #73
    SirGrim wrote:
    Of course, you will now need a visa to get into the EU countries, LOL
    A British passport is practically useless now



    This. The Western world is heading back to conservatism
    Last edited by 1 Nasty Kiwi; 24th June 2016 at 6:56 pm. Reason: embedded

  24. Post
    #74
    Vote to remain vs Age Group.

    Maybe you should lose the right to vote when you retire... The younger age group now have to live with a decision they didn't want.




    https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/stat...96149816569857

  25. Post
    #75
    good. EU is a joke.
    This was true before migrants were a thing. muslims might be the straw that broke the camels back, but they certainly aren't the only reason.