Guns!

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  1. Post
    #26

    Legality of Guns

    Mr sika wrote:
    Depends on circumstances.

    It's completely unnecessary for ar15s to be banned.

    It's about what's necessary to do x. It's about what NZ believes in. If you think NZ is a free society then we should be free to own what firearm's we would like and which the law allows.




    I am aware that sub moa ar15s exist.

    I was pointing out the futility in comparing the two.

    Yes I do.




    They are necessary. You and your lifestyle and ideology think that they aren't. That doesn't change that they are useful tools.

    Projection much? I don't feel strong or compensating for anything when I handle one.

    Get off your high horse. Appealing to emtions rather than facts will get you no where.

    If we go through your line of thinking we should ban Muslims. Virtually all terrorism is done by them. Having them here comes at the expense of mass murder.

    Or assault trucks. Or all sorts of useful tools.
    True it is a useful tool. For killing a lot of people in a short amount of time and, um, that's about it.

  2. Post
    #27
    Tormenta wrote:
    True it is a useful tool. For killing a lot of people in a short amount of time and, um, that's about it.
    Ah well. You will never accept facts. Nice to know that intransigence is alive and well in silly people like you.

    https://storymaps.esri.com/stories/t...cks/?year=2017

    I would say that I am glad that people like you don't make laws but then I realized that that stupid Iranian woman who is fine with blatantly lying to the public does.

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

  3. Post
    #28
    Mr sika wrote:
    I am aware that sub moa ar15s exist.

    I was pointing out the futility in comparing the two.


    If we go through your line of thinking we should ban Muslims. Virtually all terrorism is done by them. Having them here comes at the expense of mass murder.

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk
    No, futility would be arguing the merits of a long gun in <100m engagements because muh accuracy. Why aren't door kickers running into buildings with M40's I wonder?

  4. Post
    #29
    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    No, futility would be arguing the merits of a long gun in <100m engagements because muh accuracy. Why aren't door kickers running into buildings with M40's I wonder?
    Because M40 are not expensive and not glorified by the mainstream media.

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

  5. Post
    #30
    An M40 is a Remington model 700 and more expensive. And an ar15 is glorified by the mainstream media. I bet you if they didn't go on about them there would be far less of them

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  6. Post
    #31
    Mr sika wrote:
    An M40 is a Remington model 700. And an ar15 is glorified by the mainstream media. I bet you if they didn't go on about them there would be far less of them

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk
    why are you explaining to me what an M40 is as if I didn't already know? AR-15's are glorified by high fatality mass shootings every other month in the US, it's hardly surprising that the media talks about them a lot when they show up time and time again in the biggest spree killings.

    inb4 handguns kill people too

  7. Post
    #32
    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    why are you explaining to me what an M40 is as if I didn't already know? AR-15's are glorified by high fatality mass shootings every other month in the US, it's hardly surprising that the media talks about them a lot when they show up time and time again in the biggest spree killings.

    inb4 handguns kill people too
    Well an M40 isn't normally a civilian available firearm. So it's not relevant.

    They only talk about them cos it makes them money and gains political points.

    They do. More so than anything else.

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  8. Post
    #33
    Yeah go ahead and ban handguns too. They are also useful tools for carjacking and holding up 7-11s

    I'm sure there's someone out there right now planning to prove the usefulness of their tool to mow down students in a high school. Really ****ing useful.

  9. Post
    #34
    _
    Last edited by Mr sika; 1st April 2019 at 7:35 pm.

  10. Post
    #35
    Mr sika wrote:
    Well an M40 isn't normally a civilian available firearm. So it's not relevant.

    They only talk about them cos it makes them money and gains political points.

    They do. More so than anything else.

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk
    you can literally go online an order an m40 if you're in the states for like $600USD. But the point is, if accuracy is so important in short range encounters as you seem to think, why aren't the marines who kick down doors doing it with long guns instead of their m4's?

    The reason they talk about them is because in the last 10 years there's been 13 incidents involving >=10 deaths in a spree killing. 8 of them include AR-15's or derivatives of, including the worst event in US history by far.

    They're making money off talking about facts? Shit sorry about that, what an awful thing to do. I bet you hate universities too

  11. Post
    #36
    Mr sika wrote:
    Depends on circumstances.

    It's completely unnecessary for ar15s to be banned.

    It's about what's necessary to do x. It's about what NZ believes in. If you think NZ is a free society then we should be free to own what firearm's we would like and which the law allows.
    We don't have as much of a problem with people shooting up schools in NZ, thankfully.

    I have no interest in AR15s and no sympathy for your desire to own one. If enough people feel the same then that's a good enough reason to get rid of them. I don't give a shit if you think you should be free to own them, they don't serve any purpose except to make twats like you feel powerful and to kill a large number of people in a short amount of time.

    Mr sika wrote:
    They are necessary. You and your lifestyle and ideology think that they aren't. That doesn't change that they are useful tools.
    Useful tools for what? What legitimate reason do you have to fire so many high caliber bullets in quick succession? Are there 20 deer in front of you that need to get got?

    Mr sika wrote:
    Projection much? I don't feel strong or compensating for anything when I handle one.
    What's the point then? I don't believe you by the way.

    Mr sika wrote:
    Get off your high horse. Appealing to emtions rather than facts will get you no where.
    If we were working on facts then these kind of things would be locked up in an armory until they're needed for some legitimate reason.

    Mr sika wrote:
    If we go through your line of thinking we should ban Muslims. Virtually all terrorism is done by them. Having them here comes at the expense of mass murder.
    Whilst more people get killed by donkeys than die as a result of terrorism, this argument is stupid because the overwhelming number of muslims in any country are real people that don't bother anyone. Trying to ban them would have an horrific humanitarian consequence. Getting rid of AR15s would have no downside whatsoever apart from the complaining of the knobs like you that think they're so fun that the death toll doesn't matter.

    Mr sika wrote:
    all sorts of useful tools.
    I'm curious to hear which useful tools you think we should be rid of that cause as much harm as certain types of guns.

  12. Post
    #37
    Mr sika wrote:
    They are. Self defense. Handgun hunting. Target shooting.

    Try going after a pig through blackberry. Bush lawyer. matagouri. (I doubt you know what they even are) with a long gun and thwn with a handgun. The hand gun is much more practical.

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk
    why are you hunting with handguns in NZ? Y I K E S that won't look good on your pistol app.

  13. Post
    #38
    Mr sika wrote:
    If we go through your line of thinking we should ban far right incel dudes. Virtually all terrorism is done by them. Having them here comes at the expense of mass murder.
    agreed

  14. Post
    #39
    Also self defense with a gun in NZ is neither necessary or legal. If you shoot someone that's trying to steal your TV you'll spend the next 10 years in jail, as well you should.

  15. Post
    #40
    it's funny how he's also conveniently ignoring that the majority of Islamic terror occurs within Islamic countries (imagine that?) and then in for example the US the majority is carried out by right wing/left wing terrorism.


    :thinking:

  16. Post
    #41
    Islamic terrorism in Western countries is such a non-event that it hardly bears consideration by anyone outside of law enforcement. 9/11 was an extreme one off.

    If it's something that worries you then you should get something more realistic to worry about... like the ozone layer.

    The last people that did any terrorism in New Zealand were French spies in the 70s. Meanwhile people get melanoma and die all the time, my mother being one of them.

  17. Post
    #42
    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    Also self defense with a gun in NZ is neither necessary or legal. If you shoot someone that's trying to steal your TV you'll spend the next 10 years in jail, as well you should.
    Actually no. It is legal to use a firearm in self defense, what isn't accepted is getting a firearm for the purpose of self defense. I number of people have been charged with it over the years , but as far as I know never a conviction.

  18. Post
    #43
    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    Also self defense with a gun in NZ is neither necessary or legal. If you shoot someone that's trying to steal your TV you'll spend the next 10 years in jail, as well you should.
    You can't use lethal force to defend property, but if you think your life / your families lives are in danger, jail will not be in your future.

  19. Post
    #44
    Mufasanz wrote:
    Actually no. It is legal to use a firearm in self defense
    Technically, sure, but situations where that is warranted here are few and far between.

    It has to be legitimate self defense and your reaction (blowing a guys head off) has to be proportionate to the threat.

    Most murders in NZ are interfamilial so you wouldn't likely be armed at the time. The idea of some stranger breaking into your house wanting to kill you is bullshit.

  20. Post
    #45
    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    you can literally go online an order an m40 if you're in the states for like $600USD. But the point is, if accuracy is so important in short range encounters as you seem to think, why aren't the marines who kick down doors doing it with long guns instead of their m4's?

    The reason they talk about them is because in the last 10 years there's been 13 incidents involving >=10 deaths in a spree killing. 8 of them include AR-15's or derivatives of, including the worst event in US history by far.

    They're making money off talking about facts? Shit sorry about that, what an awful thing to do. I bet you hate universities too
    Standardized weapons. Some might want to. But obviously the average grunt uses an M4.

    The reason they talk about them is because they have been made a political talking point.

    It is. Going on about the dead the way they do.

    Nope. University is a good institution. Albeit one that's been taken over by people with agenda's

    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    We don't have as much of a problem with people shooting up schools in NZ, thankfully.

    I have no interest in AR15s and no sympathy for your desire to own one. If enough people feel the same then that's a good enough reason to get rid of them. I don't give a shit if you think you should be free to own them, they don't serve any purpose except to make twats like you feel powerful and to kill a large number of people in a short amount of time.


    Useful tools for what? What legitimate reason do you have to fire so many high caliber bullets in quick succession? Are there 20 deer in front of you that need to get got?


    What's the point then? I don't believe you by the way.


    If we were working on facts then these kind of things would be locked up in an armory until they're needed for some legitimate reason.


    Whilst more people get killed by donkeys than die as a result of terrorism, this argument is stupid because the overwhelming number of muslims in any country are real people that don't bother anyone. Trying to ban them would have an horrific humanitarian consequence. Getting rid of AR15s would have no downside whatsoever apart from the complaining of the knobs like you that think they're so fun that the death toll doesn't matter.


    I'm curious to hear which useful tools you think we should be rid of that cause as much harm as certain types of guns.
    Because of our licensing system works.

    How are you going to get rid of them when anyone in a workshop can make one?

    I've talked about their uses earlier. Don't be lazy. You already are being intellectually lazy.


    No point debating if you don't care about or believe me.

    That would make it easy to confiscate. So many wouldn't comply.

    They're fun. But that's being very dishonest to assume and project that I don't have any compassion for dead people.

    Cars. Huge numbers are killed by cars. No one wants to ban them.


    Gesellschaft wrote:
    agreed
    Yay. Trying to associate myself with some sad in celibate people. Good one. Maybe you should get off tinder and onto NZ girls. It might help you and your mental health.

    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    Also self defense with a gun in NZ is neither necessary or legal. If you shoot someone that's trying to steal your TV you'll spend the next 10 years in jail, as well you should.

    I know. I was talking about the USA.

    Nope. Depends on circumstances. Look up the case law. I don't think so. Your house. Your property. Your life.

    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    it's funny how he's also conveniently ignoring that the majority of Islamic terror occurs within Islamic countries (imagine that?) and then in for example the US the majority is carried out by right wing/left wing terrorism.


    :thinking:
    Care to provide any examples that are within a couple of years? Never heard of any on the news.

    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    Islamic terrorism in Western countries is such a non-event that it hardly bears consideration by anyone outside of law enforcement. 9/11 was an extreme one off.

    If it's something that worries you then you should get something more realistic to worry about... like the ozone layer.

    The last people that did any terrorism in New Zealand were French spies in the 70s. Meanwhile people get melanoma and die all the time, my mother being one of them.
    Really? Nice attacks. The "refugees" raping and attacking the German women in cologne.

    That is sad. Didn't she wear sun block much.?

    Mufasanz wrote:
    Actually no. It is legal to use a firearm in self defense, what isn't accepted is getting a firearm for the purpose of self defense. I number of people have been charged with it over the years , but as far as I know never a conviction.
    Exactly.

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Mr sika; 1st April 2019 at 7:37 pm.

  21. Post
    #46
    _
    Last edited by Mr sika; 1st April 2019 at 7:37 pm.

  22. Post
    #47

  23. Post
    #48
    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    one could argue that semi automatics with high capacity magazines vs a single shot bolt action are a bit overpowered, don't you think?
    it could be argued, but I wouldnt agree with it. Semi automaitc and standard size magazine (30 round mags are standard size, everything else is cut down) have their place. Service rifle shooting and IPSC are BIG international sports, and are also ideal for culling eg goats.

    If somebody is fit and proper, and obeying the law, what is the issue with them using this stuff?

  24. Post
    #49
    Mr sika wrote:
    Because of our licensing system works.
    I've got no problem with our licensing system. If the cops think you're not too much of an idiot to have one then I'm fine with that.

    Mr sika wrote:
    How are you going to get rid of them when anyone in a workshop can make one?
    An AR15? Maybe if you work at the Colt factory but most people wouldn't be able to.

    Mr sika wrote:
    I've talked about their uses earlier. Don't be lazy. You already are being intellectually lazy.
    Obviously I missed the part where you listed the reasons I would want you to have those kinds of guns but that's not intellectual laziness, that's me not wanting to comb through your post history to find an answer you could just give me in 2 seconds. If there's some outstanding reason I should want someone not in uniform to have one of these things then by all means, let me know.


    Mr sika wrote:
    No point debating if you don't care about or believe me.
    I'll believe you when you say something believable. You said they don't make you feel strong. Do you just like the way they feel in your hands?
    From my point of view I'd rather just get rid of the ****ing things and let you hold your dick in your hands instead.


    Mr sika wrote:
    Cars. Huge numbers are killed by cars. No one wants to ban them.
    That's because cars actually serve a purpose for the majority of people and despite accidents which we work hard to reduce, they're not built for the sole purpose of killing people.


    Mr sika wrote:
    Nope. Depends on circumstances. Look up the case law. I don't think so. Your house. Your property. Your life.
    nope what? I'm telling you right now that you're not allowed to shoot burglars in NZ, unless they're a very strange type of burglar that's trying to kill you as well as steal your tv. I'm not aware of any of these type of burglars recently but I concede that they may exist, mostly in movies. Even burglars know that's it's going to be easier to get away with stealing your TV if they don't commit murder in the process. It tends increase the quality of the investigation.


    Mr sika wrote:
    Care to provide any examples that are within a couple of years? Never heard of any on the news.
    You don't think the majority of Islamic terrorists blow themselves up in Pakistan, Iraq or Afghanistan rather than Queen Street? Do you really need articles to prove that?


    Mr sika wrote:
    Really? Nice attacks. The "refugees" raping and attacking the German women in cologne.

    She should have worn sun block?
    I don't actually know what you're referring to but obviously this shit does happen sometimes in Western countries but the incidence per head of population is so low that there really should be better things to worry about. How many people have died in NZ from terrorism in the last 20 years? Not many, if any.

  25. Post
    #50
    1 Nasty Kiwi wrote:
    ]If somebody is fit and proper, and obeying the law, what is the issue with them using this stuff?
    that's obviously not the issue. I wouldn't say I'm on the 'take away the AR15's' side of the argument because that would cost me a shitload of money. I'm just saying that there needs to be some honesty around them and that they are superior tools for mass murders than grandpappys bolt rifle