Guns!

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  1. Post
    #51

    Legality of Guns

    Tormenta wrote:
    Machine guns, the ones that go rat a tat tat. Why the **** u need a gun like that outside of a warzone?
    Do you actually understand the legislation on these in NZ? I dont think you do. You realise you cant legally fire these in nz right?

    Or were you thinkgin 'but america' and thus it applies everywhere?

    Can you tell me how many crimes in NZ are done with machine guns in NZ in the last 100 years?

  2. Post
    #52
    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    You sound like a lunatic. Who gives a shit about the Clinton Foundation any more?


    I'd be even more of a low energy cuck if I only slept 4 hours a day.

    Maybe Trump would be better if he slept 18 hours a day and then did something useful in the remaining 6.


    Shut the **** up.


    It's obviously a lot easier to splat a large number of people with a semi-automatic rifle than with a pistol. It's completely unnecessary for the public to have access to AR-15s. A bolt action 303 (or whatever) should be enough for hunting and an air pistol that shoots pellets should be enough for target practice.
    Why is it unnecessary? what is wrong with properly vetted people using them lawfully? If you cant answer this its just your opinion.

  3. Post
    #53
    Tormenta wrote:
    True it is a useful tool. For killing a lot of people in a short amount of time and, um, that's about it.


    lol, what a bunch of bullshit. Stop overreacting, the sky is NOT falling, and try arguiong with facts instead of emotions.

    There are literally THOUSANDS of semi automatic firearms in NZ, that have never and will never kill anybody. Get a grip and stop being so hysterical.

  4. Post
    #54
    1 Nasty Kiwi wrote:
    If somebody is fit and proper, and obeying the law, what is the issue with them using this stuff?
    I would say that if 1 person in every 1000 turns out to be an idiot or doesn't lock their safe properly so it gets stolen, then that's a good enough reason to get rid of them all in the first place.

    What's wrong with a bolt rifle for hunting?

  5. Post
    #55
    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    I've got no problem with our licensing system. If the cops think you're not too much of an idiot to have one then I'm fine with that.


    An AR15? Maybe if you work at the Colt factory but most people wouldn't be able to.


    Obviously I missed the part where you listed the reasons I would want you to have those kinds of guns but that's not intellectual laziness, that's me not wanting to comb through your post history to find an answer you could just give me in 2 seconds. If there's some outstanding reason I should want someone not in uniform to have one of these things then by all means, let me know.



    I'll believe you when you say something believable. You said they don't make you feel strong. Do you just like the way they feel in your hands?
    From my point of view I'd rather just get rid of the ****ing things and let you hold your dick in your hands instead.



    That's because cars actually serve a purpose for the majority of people and despite accidents which we work hard to reduce, they're not built for the sole purpose of killing people.



    nope what? I'm telling you right now that you're not allowed to shoot burglars in NZ, unless they're a very strange type of burglar that's trying to kill you as well as steal your tv. I'm not aware of any of these type of burglars recently but I concede that they may exist, mostly in movies.



    You don't think the majority of Islamic terrorists blow themselves up in Pakistan, Iraq or Afghanistan rather than Queen Street? Do you really need articles to prove that?



    I don't actually know what you're referring to but obviously this shit does happen sometimes in Western countries but the incidence per head of population is so low that there really should be better things to worry about. How many people have died in NZ from terrorism in the last 20 years? Not many, if any.
    That's good. It's one of the best in the world.

    Well you see. There is such thing as the internet and machine's purpose built to I dunno. Machine metal to a desired purpose.

    Because a law abiding citizen who is licensed wants one. That's all the reason they need.

    Yes I do like the way they shoulder. Easy to point when doing service rifle. Good for bush stalking.

    So do firearms. They serve a purpose for many people. And most firearms are built for target shooting and hunting. Not killing people.

    I am aware of not being allowed to shoot burglars unless you very really feel that your life is in danger. And that lethal force is reasonable response.

    Nope. But the same terrorism exists in the west. And we allow it to happen because the sort of people who commit the crimes are allowed in by us.

    Well I doubt it will continue to be like that the way we're going.

    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    that's obviously not the issue. I wouldn't say I'm on the 'take away the AR15's' side of the argument because that would cost me a shitload of money. I'm just saying that there needs to be some honesty around them and that they are superior tools for mass murders than grandpappys bolt rifle
    I will tentatively agree with this.

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

  6. Post
    #56
    1 Nasty Kiwi wrote:
    Why is it unnecessary? what is wrong with properly vetted people using them lawfully?
    I think people that have a job to do like culling Kakapos or whatever should have them. I also think there's zero benefit to 99.9% of the population in allowing them to be owned by private citizens who have no legitimate use to own something so dangerous.

    Surely you feel the same way about explosives? I might have a laugh blowing up rotten trees in my spare time but that's not really a good enough reason to have that kind of thing out in the community.

    1 Nasty Kiwi wrote:
    If you cant answer this its just your opinion.
    That's pretty crappy logic, I thought you were an Army Officer.

  7. Post
    #57
    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    We don't have as much of a problem with people shooting up schools in NZ, thankfully.

    I have no interest in AR15s and no sympathy for your desire to own one. If enough people feel the same then that's a good enough reason to get rid of them. I don't give a shit if you think you should be free to own them, they don't serve any purpose except to make twats like you feel powerful and to kill a large number of people in a short amount of time.


    Useful tools for what? What legitimate reason do you have to fire so many high caliber bullets in quick succession? Are there 20 deer in front of you that need to get got?


    What's the point then? I don't believe you by the way.


    If we were working on facts then these kind of things would be locked up in an armory until they're needed for some legitimate reason.


    Whilst more people get killed by donkeys than die as a result of terrorism, this argument is stupid because the overwhelming number of muslims in any country are real people that don't bother anyone. Trying to ban them would have an horrific humanitarian consequence. Getting rid of AR15s would have no downside whatsoever apart from the complaining of the knobs like you that think they're so fun that the death toll doesn't matter.


    I'm curious to hear which useful tools you think we should be rid of that cause as much harm as certain types of guns.
    "they don't serve any purpose except to make twats like you feel powerful and to kill a large number of people in a short amount of time"

    are you feeling ok? your frothing at the mouth a bit, and seem awfully obsessive about this. Having an irrational fear that an object suddenly makes people think about harming others is truly bizzare. It also shows that you have no idea about the license process in nz, so you are going on about something you have done no reasearch or understanding on.

    "fire so many high caliber bullets in quick succession? " more emotive bullshit, try some facts.

    "If we were working on facts then these kind of things would be locked up in an armory until they're needed for some legitimate reason."
    This is nonsensical. try again?


    "I'm curious to hear which useful tools you think we should be rid of that cause as much harm as certain types of guns."
    So you can post the figures of all firearms related deaths in nz, and then narrow it down to those crimes comitted to this type of firearm?
    Didnt think so, stop your hyperemotive horse shit and start using some facts and figures. Shrieking hysterically isnt proving an argument. Firearms crime in NZ is normally done with a sawn off shotgun, not MSSA's. Firearms crim in nz is also 0.8% of overall crime.

    you seem to be using the position USA = the world, when it comes to firearms. Nope, it isnt. NZ is very different.

  8. Post
    #58
    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    I think people that have a job to do like culling Kakapos or whatever should have them. I also think there's zero benefit to 99.9% of the population in allowing them to be owned by private citizens who have no legitimate use to own something so dangerous.

    Surely you feel the same way about explosives? I might have a laugh blowing up rotten trees in my spare time but that's not really a good enough reason to have that kind of thing out in the community.


    That's pretty crappy logic, I thought you were an Army Officer.
    So, you think a statement with no fact is more than an opinion? and your accusing me of bad logic? you're funny. Rifle a is no more dangerous to rifle b, start understanding what you are debating. Explosivves, if somebody is licensed to use it and isnt beraking the law whats the problem?

    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    I would say that if 1 person in every 1000 turns out to be an idiot or doesn't lock their safe properly so it gets stolen, then that's a good enough reason to get rid of them all in the first place.

    What's wrong with a bolt rifle for hunting?
    So, you want to get rid of something becuase hypothetical situation? Essentially your saying I dont like these nobody else should have them. Cool story bro.

  9. Post
    #59
    Why can't you nicely embed quotes the way I do?

    Mr sika wrote:
    Well you see. There is such thing as the internet and machine's purpose built to I dunno. Machine metal to a desired purpose.
    I didn't say it wasn't possible but people homecrafting semi-automatic rifles isn't a wide spread issue. If I were mental and I wanted a gun to shoot you with, homecrafting wouldn't be my first move, I'd steal one off someone else.


    Mr sika wrote:
    Because a law abiding citizen who is licensed wants one. That's all the reason they need.
    Maybe that's all the reason you need, but it's not good enough for me and I'm also registered to vote.


    Mr sika wrote:
    Yes I do like the way they shoulder. Easy to point when doing service rifle. Good for bush stalking.
    I don't know what "doing service rifle" means but why can't you use one that doesn't fire so rapidly? How many bullet holes does a deer need?

    Mr sika wrote:
    So do firearms. They serve a purpose for many people.
    Compared to cars? I use a car all the time. They only time I feel like I need a firearm is when I'm talking to you.


    Mr sika wrote:
    And most firearms are built for target shooting and hunting. Not killing people.
    I wouldn't say most. You don't need a high rate of high caliber fire for target shooting or hunting.


    Mr sika wrote:
    I am aware of not being allowed to shoot burglars unless you very really feel that your life is in danger. And that lethal force is reasonable response.
    Maybe in a very specific situation it would be a reasonable response. In reality if you encouraged that kind of behaviour you'd get a lot of dead meter readers and kids climbing around your house trying to find their frisbees.
    If anyone has to do any shooting it should be the cops, not you.

    Mr sika wrote:
    But the same terrorism exists in the west. And we allow it to happen because the sort of people who commit the crimes are allowed in by us.
    What people? Brown people?
    Terrorism in New Zealand is really not an issue. The only reason we even engage with the idea is to win points with the US.

    Mr sika wrote:
    Well I doubt it will continue to be like that the way we're going.
    You think it's going to get bad all of a sudden even though it's currently a non-issue and there's no suggestion that it will change? Why?

  10. Post
    #60
    1 Nasty Kiwi wrote:
    Do you actually understand the legislation on these in NZ? I dont think you do. You realise you cant legally fire these in nz right?

    Or were you thinkgin 'but america' and thus it applies everywhere?

    Can you tell me how many crimes in NZ are done with machine guns in NZ in the last 100 years?
    Da fuq? His argument was about gun laws in the US, and you've turned that into "but no machine guns in NZ" somehow? Go back and read his posts.

  11. Post
    #61
    InvisibleShadow wrote:
    Da fuq? His argument was about gun laws in the US, and you've turned that into "but no machine guns in NZ" somehow? Go back and read his posts.
    If thats the case, i went on a bit of a tangent reading through all the posts, and my bad, ill own that.

    Even with the states its not black and white though, with states having varying law, and federal law over the top.

    I beleive USA and Canada has similar rates of firearm ownershipo, but canada doesnt have the problems that the states does.

    The US problems are MORE than legislation. The have cultual issues and mental health issues that need to be addressed, and thankfully NZ isnt anywhwere near the level of problems being experienced there.

    Where I was getting to is "i dont like these so nobody should have them" isnt a valid argument. Chicago is an interesting case study in regards to firearms crime, legislation and legal ownership. I think it shows that firearms crime in the states is a lot more complex than is being made out in this thred, and its just one of many issues they are facing.

    NZ in general doesnt seem to comprehend how entrenched the constitiution is, as part of american society (note im not claiming to be an expert), with how enshirned it is in american values, and while it contains the 'right to bear arms' its going to be very difficult for america to change.

  12. Post
    #62
    1 Nasty Kiwi wrote:
    Essentially your saying I dont like these nobody else should have them. Cool story bro.
    Pretty much yeah. It's not just me though, the vast majority of the population has no desire to be heavily armed so why should we all let you be so? That's the situation really, do the 99% let the 1% run around like they're storming Omaha beach or just tell them to pack it in? If you want to shoot deer then use a bolt action (or something similarly slow, I'm obviously not an expert). If you want to target practice, use something that shoots pellets. Everyone's happy?

    Most of the rest of your post was just insults which while I appreciate, there isn't much to answer.

    InvisibleShadow wrote:
    Da fuq? His argument was about gun laws in the US, and you've turned that into "but no machine guns in NZ" somehow? Go back and read his posts.
    That was one of the parts I wasn't really following. I don't think anyone believes machine guns are a good product for public consumption.
    Last edited by Quasi ELVIS; 27th May 2018 at 9:02 pm.

  13. Post
    #63
    1 Nasty Kiwi wrote:
    The US problems are MORE than legislation. The have cultual issues and mental health issues that need to be addressed, and thankfully NZ isnt anywhwere near the level of problems being experienced there.
    That's for sure. I wouldn't blame it all on mental health, there's something else going on as well.

    These problems would be a lot easier to treat if all these school shooters didn't have such easy access to guns, that much is obvious.

    1 Nasty Kiwi wrote:
    Where I was getting to is "i dont like these so nobody should have them" isnt a valid argument.
    Why not? If you burnt every public owned gun outside of the police, military, fish and game, etc, you'd have a lot less school shootings wouldn't you? These nutcases aren't going to run in and stab 10 people, it's the guns that give them the power.

  14. Post
    #64
    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    Pretty much yeah. It's not just me though, the vast majority of the population has no desire to be heavily armed so why should we all let you be so? That's the situation really, do the 99% let the 1% run around like they're storming Omaha beach or just tell them to pack it in? If you want to shoot deer then use a bolt action. If you want to target practice, use something that shoots pellets. Everyone's happy?

    Most of the rest of your post was just insults which while I appreciate, there isn't much to answer.


    That was one of the parts I wasn't really following. I don't think anyone believes machine guns are a good product for public consumption.
    This is what I mean by not being black and white, you use the term heavily armed, but unless this expression is specifically defined, its open to interpretation. (this goes into making laws specific and measureable but thats a WHOLE different argument)


    and to clarify are you talking about nz or USA in this inistance becuase the situations are very different - Youre not innocent from throwing around insults either, so do you really want to go down that road?

    Why does there have to be an extreme of a one gun deer hunter, or storming a beach? Why do you seem to be pressing that anybody that has more than one firearm is some obsessive that has killing fantasies? Its simply not the case. People with firearms licenses are just normal people.

    Firearms are simply tools, just like there is different types of hammers, there is different types of firearms.

  15. Post
    #65
    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    Why can't you nicely embed quotes the way I do?


    I didn't say it wasn't possible but people homecrafting semi-automatic rifles isn't a wide spread issue. If I were mental and I wanted a gun to shoot you with, homecrafting wouldn't be my first move, I'd steal one off someone else.



    Maybe that's all the reason you need, but it's not good enough for me and I'm also registered to vote.



    I don't know what "doing service rifle" means but why can't you use one that doesn't fire so rapidly? How many bullet holes does a deer need?


    Compared to cars? I use a car all the time. They only time I feel like I need a firearm is when I'm talking to you.



    I wouldn't say most. You don't need a high rate of high caliber fire for target shooting or hunting.



    Maybe in a very specific situation it would be a reasonable response. In reality if you encouraged that kind of behaviour you'd get a lot of dead meter readers and kids climbing around your house trying to find their frisbees.
    If anyone has to do any shooting it should be the cops, not you.


    What people? Brown people?
    Terrorism in New Zealand is really not an issue. The only reason we even engage with the idea is to win points with the US.


    You think it's going to get bad all of a sudden even though it's currently a non-issue and there's no suggestion that it will change? Why?
    I will try. I am on tap a talk.

    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    I didn't say it wasn't possible but people homecrafting semi-automatic rifles isn't a wide spread issue. If I were mental and I wanted a gun to shoot you with, homecrafting wouldn't be my first move, I'd steal one off someone else.
    I know. But the reason why they aren't widespread is because we can legally acquire them. Which is as it should be.

    Good luck. You have to know someone who is licensed. Anti people like you don't exactly associate with licensed people I reckon.

    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    Maybe that's all the reason you need, but it's not good enough for me and I'm also registered to vote.
    It is.

    I know. And that's the sad thing. Something that doesn't affect your life and something that you have no interest in is something that you are willing to take away.

    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    I don't know what "doing service rifle" means but why can't you use one that doesn't fire so rapidly? How many bullet holes does a deer need?.
    It is shooting replica military issue rifles stationary or through a course. Same with 3 gun but with a shotgun and pistol extra. You get points and it is very fun.

    You can. But everyone else is using the standard ar15. So you would've putting yourself at a distinct disable by doing so.

    One if you do the job right. But from a helicopter it's not always as easy.

    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    Compared to cars? I use a car all the time. They only time I feel like I need a firearm is when I'm talking to you.
    It's not very nice to threaten someone who has a different opinion to you. Why do you feel the need to brandish a weapon threateningly when you are talking to me? Is it because you are insecure? Isn't that what you accused me of being and as a reason to get them out of people's hands?

    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    I wouldn't say most. You don't need a high rate of high caliber fire for target shooting or hunting.
    You do if you feel like dumping a mag into a target.

    Lol. Care to explain high calibre fire? If you shooting 2 kilometres away you need a high powered calibre. Same if you want to shoot some animal from a long way away.


    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    Maybe in a very specific situation it would be a reasonable response. In reality if you encouraged that kind of behaviour you'd get a lot of dead meter readers and kids climbing around your house trying to find their frisbees.
    If anyone has to do any shooting it should be the cops, not you.
    Which is why we don't encourage the behaviour mentioned. It is just an option.

    When seconds count cops are only minutes away. Or in our case they never turn up.

    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    What people? Brown people?
    Terrorism in New Zealand is really not an issue. The only reason we even engage with the idea is to win points with the US.
    Any people. Why are you making a race issue out of nothing? Terrorism has no race. The troubles are an example.


    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    You think it's going to get bad all of a sudden even though it's currently a non-issue and there's no suggestion that it will change? Why?
    Well why do we have people on a watch list under surveillance. We have a Maori Muslim convert who loses with a rifle and pledges allegiance to Isis. And how many times have you read that the terrorists were known to authorities? Too many times.

    Just because something is a non issue now doesn't mean that it's not going to be an issue in the future.

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

  16. Post
    #66
    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    That's for sure. I wouldn't blame it all on mental health, there's something else going on as well.

    These problems would be a lot easier to treat if all these school shooters didn't have such easy access to guns, that much is obvious.


    Why not? If you burnt every public owned gun outside of the police, military, fish and game, etc, you'd have a lot less school shootings wouldn't you? These nutcases aren't going to run in and stab 10 people, it's the guns that give them the power.
    This is where you run into complications with varying state law. They have different storage needs and difficulty in obtaining them (im assuming legally at this point).
    There has already been stabbing sprees, bomb attacks and using vehicles, so I guess it depends on the type of whackjob you are dealing with - if its some sort of idealogy, then they will just find another means to cause harm.

    Firearms will always be stolen, smuggled and manufacturered (kids in east timor made their own). I get you are saying destroy all publicly held, but that is a hypthetical situation, the best case scenario in reality is removing all legally owned, which doesnt remove them from criminal hands.

  17. Post
    #67
    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    Pretty much yeah. It's not just me though, the vast majority of the population has no desire to be heavily armed so why should we all let you be so? That's the situation really, do the 99% let the 1% run around like they're storming Omaha beach or just tell them to pack it in? If you want to shoot deer then use a bolt action (or something similarly slow, I'm obviously not an expert). If you want to target practice, use something that shoots pellets. Everyone's happy?

    Most of the rest of your post was just insults which while I appreciate, there isn't much to answer.


    That was one of the parts I wasn't really following. I don't think anyone believes machine guns are a good product for public consumption.
    Care to provide a source for that erroneous claim of 99 percent of people are against guns?


    Why are machine guns bad for public consumption? Full auto is very expensive. To buy. To shoot. Even in the USA. They're apparently awesome fun.

    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    That's for sure. I wouldn't blame it all on mental health, there's something else going on as well.

    These problems would be a lot easier to treat if all these school shooters didn't have such easy access to guns, that much is obvious.


    Why not? If you burnt every public owned gun outside of the police, military, fish and game, etc, you'd have a lot less school shootings wouldn't you? These nutcases aren't going to run in and stab 10 people, it's the guns that give them the power.
    Such as?

    Then the USA should have more laws about firearms security rather than less guns.

    Yes. But you'd also have a lot more dead people from cops. Huge amounts of dead people From illegal firearms.

    Huge animal and pest populations. More 1080 anyone?

    And they would. UK has huge knife crime. So it won't change. Just different tools.

  18. Post
    #68
    why is full auto even a talking point

  19. Post
    #69
    What are people thought on banning high powered cars?. I believe no one needs to accelerate to 100 faster than 10 seconds or go over 110kph. I think only professional drivers should be allow to use them at events.

    Id say the majority of the population would agree as most use cars as A>B transport and don't need to go fast. It would surely cut down all those deaths related to high speed police chases and help to stop all those people who decide to do it.

  20. Post
    #70
    Eagle wrote:
    What are people thought on banning high powered cars?. I believe no one needs to accelerate to 100 faster than 10 seconds or go over 110kph. I think only professional drivers should be allow to use them at events.

    Id say the majority of the population would agree as most use cars as A>B transport and don't need to go fast. It would surely cut down all those deaths related to high speed police chases and help to stop all those people who decide to do it.
    giz some links to the monthly mass killings with cars fam

  21. Post
    #71
    Eagle wrote:
    What are people thought on banning high powered cars?. I believe no one needs to accelerate to 100 faster than 10 seconds or go over 110kph. I think only professional drivers should be allow to use them at events.

    Id say the majority of the population would agree as most use cars as A>B transport and don't need to go fast. It would surely cut down all those deaths related to high speed police chases and help to stop all those people who decide to do it.
    That's just the nanny state coming through.

    How will you over take the ass holes who go slow in the corners and then speed up in the straights without a car with decent horsepower.

    Yes but they might want to go fast. Who's to say they can't?

    Doubt it. Cops break the law all the time. They speed. Why should they be the only ones when most of the time they're speeding just driving around normally.

    Let them crash. Darwin's award.


    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    why is full auto even a talking point
    Because others brought it up.

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

  22. Post
    #72
    I think it's good that we can discuss this sort of stuff and there's no worries about offending people. Or snooping and trying to find out who they are or it just descending into a flame war.

    Props to the forum.

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

  23. Post
    #73
    Mr sika wrote:
    I think it's good that we can discuss this sort of stuff and there's no worries about offending people. Or snooping and trying to find out who they are or it just descending into a flame war.

    Props to the forum.

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk
    I think we all got a little carried away. It shows that people are pattionate about their points of view. But, it calmed down and became civil again.

  24. Post
    #74
    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    giz some links to the monthly mass killings with cars fam
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...aths-by-state/

    That enough death?. We need to sort out medical misdiagnosis too, got a big issue there.

  25. Post
    #75
    Eagle wrote:
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...aths-by-state/

    That enough death?. We need to sort out medical misdiagnosis too, got a big issue there.
    that's not mass killings my dude