Guns!

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  1. Post
    #1

    Guns!

    EDIT:
    This thread is hacked off the end of the America one to separate the gun talk from the "Donald Trump sucks" talk.

    -QE
    _____________________________________


    Vulcan wrote:
    The interesting thing about aussie is they have higher gun ownership rates than NZ.
    And the level of gun violence was decreasing before port arthur.

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    Last edited by Quasi ELVIS; 28th May 2018 at 5:43 am.

  2. Post
    #2
    Yep i agree. The NZ system ain't perfect but its fairly balanced and we certainly don't have a gun violence problem. Many anti gun fear mongering morons see whats happening in the US and automatically equate it to NZ, making an big issue out of one that doesn't exist. We ain't the US and never will be.

  3. Post
    #3
    Mr sika wrote:
    There was one a few weeks ago...... But they magically don't consider family being shot as a mass shooting. How convenient.
    I know their was one one a few weeks ago, hence my sarcastic comment.

    And how many have there been in the US so far this year?

  4. Post
    #4
    Eagle wrote:
    Yep i agree. The NZ system ain't perfect but its fairly balanced and we certainly don't have a gun violence problem. Many anti gun fear mongering morons see whats happening in the US and automatically equate it to NZ, making an big issue out of one that doesn't exist. We ain't the US and never will be.


    InvisibleShadow wrote:
    I know their was one one a few weeks ago, hence my sarcastic comment.

    And how many have there been in the US so far this year?
    Too many. They need more mental health services than gun control.

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  5. Post
    #5
    eug1404 wrote:
    Most black market firearms in NZ are stolen from legitimate gun owners, not smuggled into the country. The less prevalent guns are in a society the harder it is for criminal elements to gain access to them, and consequently the rarer the usage of them by said criminal elements will be.

    Having said that the boat has well and truly sailed in the US, no idea what they can do.
    Got any proof of that? Coz the oia requests to the police got a response of we don't keep that information.

    Unfortunately being threatened with a weapon while you are home will still get a crim past your security

  6. Post
    #6
    Tormenta wrote:
    Well victims of gun violence who are also children, in the nascence of their lives, are arguably more sympathetic figures than adults and easier targets perhaps. Also most mass murders in recent times are occurring in schools.

    The NRA are evil though because no matter how many shootings there are, they still want the right to own stupidly overpowered weapons that serve no useful civilian purpose except to orchestrate mass murder. And they should be honest about how completely apathetic they are to the past, present, and future victims of gun violence.
    Can you describe when a firearm is overpowered? I'm not sure of your meaning.

    Please remember that the U.S. is very different to nz legally and culturally.

    Our firearm crime rate is tiny thankfully.

  7. Post
    #7
    1 Nasty Kiwi wrote:
    Can you describe when a firearm is overpowered? I'm not sure of your meaning.

    Please remember that the U.S. is very different to nz legally and culturally.

    Our firearm crime rate is tiny thankfully.
    one could argue that semi automatics with high capacity magazines vs a single shot bolt action are a bit overpowered, don't you think?

  8. Post
    #8
    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    one could argue that semi automatics with high capacity magazines vs a single shot bolt action are a bit overpowered, don't you think?
    I agree that the high capacity thing and bump stocks in the USA are stupid. But that doesn't change the statistics.

    People like tormenta have a hard on for the NRA, the National Rifle Association. Yet you are 200x more likely to be shot with a handgun than a rifle in the USA.

    But hey facts be damned we're a bunch of snowflakes wearing pink pussy hats and we want to hang the NRA!

  9. Post
    #9
    1 Nasty Kiwi wrote:
    Can you describe when a firearm is overpowered? I'm not sure of your meaning.

    Please remember that the U.S. is very different to nz legally and culturally.

    Our firearm crime rate is tiny thankfully.
    I wouldn't bother bro. It's obvious he's entrenched in his views and knows nothing about firearms.

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  10. Post
    #10
    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    one could argue that semi automatics with high capacity magazines vs a single shot bolt action are a bit overpowered, don't you think?
    Well there are lots of uses for a semi automatic rifle and high capacity magazines. Waro wouldn't nearly be as effective as it is if they used a single shot bolt action.

    Same with big mobs of goats. Or rabbits.

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  11. Post
    #11
    Mr sika wrote:
    Well there are lots of uses for a semi automatic rifle and high capacity magazines. Waro wouldn't nearly be as effective as it is if they used a single shot bolt action.

    Same with big mobs of goats. Or rabbits.

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk
    One of your arguments in favour of semi autos is their military use? Oh ok

  12. Post
    #12
    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    One of your arguments in favour of semi autos is their military use? Oh ok
    No. Wild Animal Recovery Operations. Waro. Try hanging out of a chopper. Trying to head shoot a deer to minimise the meat loss with a single shot.

    At least try to Google things you don't know so you are informed

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  13. Post
    #13
    oh right, i thought it was just a typo. my bad.

  14. Post
    #14
    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    oh right, i thought it was just a typo. my bad.
    No worries.

    It might seem like they are not useful in civilian hands.

    But they do have uses.

    Also some features found in a military issue gun doesn't magically make it more deadly.

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  15. Post
    #15
    I own an AR-15 and am a huge fan of MSSA's but it's seriously disingenuous to pretend they're not more deadly than your typical run of the mill bolt action hunting rifle.

    but whatever, this argument has been done over and over in this thread and it's always just the same shit each time and not worth the hassle

  16. Post
    #16
    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    I own an AR-15 and am a huge fan of MSSA's but it's seriously disingenuous to pretend they're not more deadly than your typical run of the mill bolt action hunting rifle.

    but whatever, this argument has been done over and over in this thread and it's always just the same shit each time and not worth the hassle
    I never implied that they were. I was saying that they are more effective than a bolt action rifle in a waro situation where they are used by civilians.


    I dunno about that. Most hunting rifles are chambered in higher powered calibre than 223. And an Enfield had such a high rate of fire that the Germans thought they were machine guns. And you can have a high capacity magazine on a bolt action.

    And a hunting rifle is more accurate than a run of the mill ar15.

    But I agree. it's run its course.

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  17. Post
    #17
    oh god not the lee enfield meme. you're talking about a group of users shooting at germans not a single person.


    and yeah no shit getting hit with a .375H&H would be far less favourable than a .223 but the point is you can follow up with another 5 rounds in a couple of seconds with an AR, not to mention move to more targets, much more rapidly. Feel free to take a bolt action into a 3 gun comp and prove me wrong.

    as far as accuracy? What does it matter when your engagements are all <100 metres, often into tightly packed groups of fleeing children lol

    muh sub MoA school shooty rifle.

  18. Post
    #18
    lol gun chat on gp.

  19. Post
    #19
    1 Nasty Kiwi wrote:
    Can you describe when a firearm is overpowered? I'm not sure of your meaning.

    Please remember that the U.S. is very different to nz legally and culturally.

    Our firearm crime rate is tiny thankfully.
    Machine guns, the ones that go rat a tat tat. Why the **** u need a gun like that outside of a warzone?

  20. Post
    #20
    Tormenta wrote:
    Machine guns, the ones that go rat a tat tat. Why the **** u need a gun like that outside of a warzone?
    People are going to pull you up here on the semantics of what a machine gun is, in that it generally means fully automatic fire which the guns being used aren't. But for the purposes of a massacre, semi-automatic fire would be far more useful and deadly anyway so /shrug

  21. Post
    #21
    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    oh god not the lee enfield meme. you're talking about a group of users shooting at germans not a single person.


    and yeah no shit getting hit with a .375H&H would be far less favourable than a .223 but the point is you can follow up with another 5 rounds in a couple of seconds with an AR, not to mention move to more targets, much more rapidly. Feel free to take a bolt action into a 3 gun comp and prove me wrong.

    as far as accuracy? What does it matter when your engagements are all <100 metres, often into tightly packed groups of fleeing children lol

    muh sub MoA school shooty rifle.
    Still some what relevant.

    I will. When I get my pistol endorsement soon.

    So you can get direct center of mass?

    How can you know for sure that they are tightly packed?

    Tormenta wrote:
    Machine guns, the ones that go rat a tat tat. Why the **** u need a gun like that outside of a warzone?
    Come on. Now you're just taking the piss. Read the laws and you'll see that any machine guns and fully automatic battle rifles are legal to own but not to fire. Further more they have to be made to be unable to fire unless you are a gunsmith or not easily and quickly converted back to firing state. And it is a lot harder to get the endorsement.



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  22. Post
    #22
    Vulcan wrote:
    you keep going on about Uranium One, but I've pointed out to you many times that its not about Uranium One, but about Giusta, UrAsia, kazakhstan and the clinton foundation. But you seem quite happy to ignore all that and keep harping on like a failed troll without any decent bait left. But I guess it makes you feel good I'm happy for you.?
    You sound like a lunatic. Who gives a shit about the Clinton Foundation any more?

    Thunderstorm wrote:
    I wouldn't class anyone as a low energy cuck who only sleeps 4-5 hours a day.
    I'd be even more of a low energy cuck if I only slept 4 hours a day.

    Maybe Trump would be better if he slept 18 hours a day and then did something useful in the remaining 6.

    ChineseKiwi wrote:
    That's not how sleep works darling. Dat phase 3 sleep time yo.
    Shut the **** up.

    Vulcan wrote:
    People like tormenta have a hard on for the NRA, the National Rifle Association. Yet you are 200x more likely to be shot with a handgun than a rifle in the USA.
    It's obviously a lot easier to splat a large number of people with a semi-automatic rifle than with a pistol. It's completely unnecessary for the public to have access to AR-15s. A bolt action 303 (or whatever) should be enough for hunting and an air pistol that shoots pellets should be enough for target practice.

  23. Post
    #23
    Mr sika wrote:
    Still some what relevant.

    I will. When I get my pistol endorsement soon.

    So you can get direct center of mass?

    How can you know for sure that they are tightly packed?
    center of mass? Are you suggesting AR-15s are 15MOA guns or something? What difference is the accuracy of a hunting rifle vs an AR-15 going to make within 100 meters? That makes no sense whatsoever.

    How can I know they're tightly packed? You know where these events largely take place right? And you know police reports exist yeah?

  24. Post
    #24
    ^^Yeah exactly. It's unnecessary to have them, but intensely desirable to have them, likely cos it makes them feel powerful and they're overcompensating for something. They should be honest about that, and that that self-serving attitude comes at the expense of victims of mass murder

  25. Post
    #25
    Quasi ELVIS wrote:
    It's obviously a lot easier to splat a large number of people with a semi-automatic rifle than with a pistol. It's completely unnecessary for the public to have access to AR-15s. A bolt action 303 (or whatever) should be enough for hunting and an air pistol that shoots pellets should be enough for target practice.
    Depends on circumstances.

    It's completely unnecessary for ar15s to be banned.

    It's about what's necessary to do x. It's about what NZ believes in. If you think NZ is a free society then we should be free to own what firearm's we would like and which the law allows.


    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    center of mass? Are you suggesting AR-15s are 15MOA guns or something? What difference is the accuracy of a hunting rifle vs an AR-15 going to make within 100 meters? That makes no sense whatsoever.

    How can I know they're tightly packed? You know where these events largely take place right? And you know police reports exist yeah?
    I am aware that sub moa ar15s exist.

    I was pointing out the futility in comparing the two.

    Yes I do.


    Tormenta wrote:
    ^^Yeah exactly. It's unnecessary to have them, but intensely desirable to have them, likely cos it makes them feel powerful and they're overcompensating for something. They should be honest about that, and that that self-serving attitude comes at the expense of victims of mass murder
    They are necessary. You and your lifestyle and ideology think that they aren't. That doesn't change that they are useful tools.

    Projection much? I don't feel strong or compensating for anything when I handle one.

    Get off your high horse. Appealing to emtions rather than facts will get you no where.

    If we go through your line of thinking we should ban Muslims. Virtually all terrorism is done by them. Having them here comes at the expense of mass murder.

    Or assault trucks. Or all sorts of useful tools.