Next Xbox codenamed "Scarlet"

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  1. Post
    #26
    Might hold off on the x1x!

  2. Post
    #27
    Wonder if they will be able to tout "worlds most powerful console" when this is out?

  3. Post
    #28
    jords wrote:
    Fact that BETH discussed next gen I am thinking announced late next year release Q1 2020.
    Q1 or at latest Q2 2020 is my guess too hombre: I was going to buy an X and sell my S...but now I'm thinking meh frak it and just wait.

    Literally was just going to do it for the RDR X upgrades...but that's a pretty extreme reason to upgrade now that I think about it

  4. Post
    #29
    Man the rumours are really heating up. Digital Foundry are speculating their could be multiple next gen xbox's.

    It was the E3 where we half-expected Sony to break cover with its plans for the next generation of PlayStation hardware, but come the hour, it was actually Microsoft that confirmed that its hardware engineers are hard at work architecting what Phil Spencer called "the next Xbox consoles". Implying that more than one new Xbox is in development right now is an interesting - and dare we suggest, deliberate - choice of words.

    This was swiftly followed up by a report from Microsoft/Windows-focused website thurrott.com, reporting on internal MS roadmaps describing a 'family of devices' currently in development under the 'Scarlett' codename, set to arrive in 2020. Thurrott's insider stories along these lines are typically well-sourced and the timelines tie-in with the arrival of the technological building blocks that will enable next-gen hardware.

    But with Spencer talking about new hardware in the plural and the Scarlett project reported as more than just a single console release, we have to wonder what form the next generation is going to take, and what separates each of these machines from a technological perspective. After all, in the here and now, Microsoft often refers to its Xbox One 'family' - similar devices in many ways, but with radically different levels of rendering power.

    There are further strands to weave into the discussion here, with Spencer revealing more in his annual E3 interview with Giant Bomb. It's well worth a watch, with the Xbox boss seeing next-gen as an opportunity to focus on higher frame-rates and to leverage the firm's existing work with variable refresh rate and 120Hz display technology.

    Spencer also sees the arrival of new hardware as the means by which CPU and GPU power can be rebalanced more in line with what we see on today's PCs, as opposed to the situation we have now where even Xbox One X - the most powerful home console - is pairing a six teraflop GPU with low-power x86 CPU cores originally designed for tablets.

    Option #1: A next-gen console and streaming box

    Option #2: A next-gen console with Xbox One X as the new base machine

    Option #3: Two - or more - next-gen machines

    Option #4: The Xbox One X dev kit model

    Option #5: New boxes with staggered release intervals

    Each option is outlined by DF, so read the article for the details!

    Next-gen: the challenges and the opportunities

    We need not worry about the CPU side of the next-gen machines. AMD's Ryzen offers phenomenal performance for the amount of silicon area it uses, it's power efficient and it's broadly competitive with the best on the market - Intel's Core architecture. As we've discussed in the past, the potential here for deeper, richer, more complex games - or indeed more titles running at 60fps - is mouth-watering.

    The issue is that while AMD can offer a generational leap over the graphics performance of the base PlayStation 4 (effectively the main target current-gen target platform), delivering the same increase in performance over PS4 Pro and especially Xbox One X is far more challenging.

    Doubling X's GPU power is achievable, but if the aim is also to double frame-rate, the ability to deliver richer graphics is therefore more limited. If the objective is to lock to native 4K and deliver hugely improved visuals, again, 2x Xbox One X performance isn't enough.

    The jump from OG Xbox to Xbox 360 required a bleeding-edge GPU to deliver a 3x increase in pixel density with enough headroom for much improved graphics. Meanwhile, the leap from PS3 to PS4 saw only a 2.25x increase in pixel-count. In this respect, expecting native 4K across the board from next-gen doesn't seem likely.

    More probable is innovative use of custom hardware. There are already rumours of Sony collaborating directly with AMD on its Navi architecture, and PS4 Pro offered some fascinating technology in allowing a console GPU to punch well above its weight in supporting 4K screens, even though third-party developer buy-in was relatively limited. Next-gen is a crossroads for game technology and this time around, we may well see alternative visions from Sony and Microsoft etched directly into the silicon, with each taking strategic bets on the future of graphics via the integration of custom hardware.
    https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...-next-gen-xbox

  5. Post
    #30
    I reckon it'll be just like the Xbox One releases. e.g - Xbox Scarlet model 1 then Model 2 with updated tech and Model 3 with even fancier tech.

  6. Post
    #31
    WarZoner wrote:
    I reckon it'll be just like the Xbox One releases. e.g - Xbox Scarlet model 1 then Model 2 with updated tech and Model 3 with even fancier tech.
    Sort of glad since it helps push game graphics more and more.

  7. Post
    #32
    I would assume the new XBOX will play XB1 games as well as the 360's backward compat games
    Last edited by fuzzy2308; 18th June 2018 at 6:38 pm.

  8. Post
    #33
    might get an s then instead of an x. Although it is still 2 years away...

  9. Post
    #34
    You could probably sell the X close to the next gen launch at 400 ish I bet theres a few games coming out that I'm sure will look amazing on the X probably still worth the investment. I probably gonna get one in Sept/October, or when another price drop happens, too poor to get one now.

  10. Post
    #35
    Xbox Scarlett Cloud box information leaked (Next-gen; Traditional system as well)

    First, Microsoft is building a traditional console that you would expect from the Xbox brand. I think it’s important to point this out so that those who prefer to have all their hardware locally, will have an option with the next generation Xbox.

    As for specs for this device, that’s still not known at this time as it’s the early days of development for that piece of hardware. But what I am starting to hear more about is the second device, a streaming box that is designed to work with the company’s upcoming game streaming platform.

    Scarlett Cloud as one person called it, is the game streaming service that we have all been envisioning ever since Microsoft showed off a demo game streaming at its all-employee meeting back in 2013. But this time, Microsoft has a path to bring it to market.

    The second ‘console’ that the company is working on is a lower-powered device that is currently planned to ship with the next generation device that is designed for game-streaming. But the catch here is that Microsoft thinks it has figured out how to handle the latency sensitive aspects of gaming.

    The cloud console will have a limited amount of compute locally for specific tasks like controller input, image processing, and importantly, collision detection. The downside of this is that it since more hardware is needed locally, it will raise the price of the streaming box but it will still cost significantly less than what we are accustomed to paying for a new-generation console which should help expand the platform’s reach.

    The cloud version of Scarlett is further along in the development cycle than the traditional console that will also be released in 2020. This device does make me wonder if it has any relationship to the Xbox Hobart streaming device that was nearly released two years ago but was canceled late in the development cycle.

    When it comes to games, all Scarlett games will run on all Scarlett devices. Meaning, both consoles will be first-class citizens and there is not expected to be an awkward ‘this game only runs on the non-cloud Scarlett’.
    https://www.thurrott.com/xbox/163896...eaming-service

  11. Post
    #36
    mhm this could be interesting - in theory I'd love to have a little box and can just play any game I want with a monthly subscription fee without having to buy a game or buy a physical copy - of course the input lag is the issue, it sounds like microsoft's streaming box will still contain a CPU to do all the calculations, but graphics will be produced by an offsite server farm

    What really sounds good here is that they will launch two distinct models, a base model containing all next gen hardware that runs physical discs and then the streaming cut down version where you pay a monthly fee to play games

  12. Post
    #37
    Good games that interest is whats needed.

    Physical all day er day!

  13. Post
    #38
    I don't like the idea of a streaming service purely because I don't want to be locked into ANOTHER subscription based model. I like owning physical media and only paying for it once.

  14. Post
    #39
    Rii wrote:
    I don't like the idea of a streaming service purely because I don't want to be locked into ANOTHER subscription based model. I like owning physical media and only paying for it once.
    good thing microsoft is giving you both options, so if you don't want to or can't stream then you buy the more expensive box that plays physical discs

  15. Post
    #40
    SirGrim wrote:
    good thing microsoft is giving you both options, so if you don't want to or can't stream then you buy the more expensive box that plays physical discs
    They are at the moment, but a decade down the track, that's what they'll be trying to push as it is good for a steady stream of income.

    I personally like owning things, particularly games. Movies and music are a bit different as these have always had TV, video rental and radio as dominant modes of access, so the shift to streaming has mostly been an extension of that.
    But games, unless we go back to the 80s, the paradigm of consumption has been ownership.

  16. Post
    #41
    The cloud console will have a limited amount of compute locally for specific tasks like controller input, image processing, and importantly, collision detection.
    I'm confused about this, if the controls (controller input), the graphics (image processing) and at least part of the gameplay (collision detection) are going to be rendered locally, then a) what's left? and b) what's the point?

    Seems like the worst of both worlds, you'd have to put up with all the latency issues of streaming and you'd have to pay extra for workarounds that may or may not be effective enough for all genres of gaming.

  17. Post
    #42
    Image processing likely doesn't refer to graphics rendering, but simply processing the video stream that is streamed back. Like streaming any other video; still a bit of decoding and so forth, something to talk to the display, all that stuff.

  18. Post
    #43
    Richard7666 wrote:
    Image processing likely doesn't refer to graphics rendering, but simply processing the video stream that is streamed back. Like streaming any other video; still a bit of decoding and so forth, something to talk to the display, all that stuff.
    Then that poses another technical hurdle, say I'm in an FPS game and I turn my character around, that'd be handled locally, yeah? But the loading of textures etc. wouldn't (I guess?) so after my character does a 180* turn, how would they load in textures etc. without any sort of pop-in that would likely arise due to latency?

    Or to put it another way, how would they correctly guess where I want to go, get the environments from a server stored ages away and render them back as fast as a local machine can detect controller input?

    I'd love to see it work but the scale of the problems they're dealing with here are massive.

  19. Post
    #44
    Looks like well be getting more than one next gen xbox SKU.

    What are Xbox 'Anaconda' and 'Lockhart'? Microsoft is reportedly working on a family of next-gen Xbox devices based on the "Scarlett" codename. Microsoft is building up to take next-gen head-on with its Xbox platform, which has notoriously been on the back foot against PlayStation throughout the current generation. Microsoft has been on a studio shopping spree as of late, vastly expanding its portfolio of exclusive content it hopes will entice gamers onto the Xbox ecosystem. Microsoft is also exploring lowering the barrier to entry by spreading across to mobile devices, via Project xCloud game streaming, as well as offering Netflix-like all-you-can-eat gaming via Xbox Game Pass. What do their current hardware plans look like, though?

    As first reported by Thurrott, Microsoft is building a disc-less Xbox One console set to launch by spring 2019 if all things go to plan. We've also heard that Microsoft will look to announce the console as early as January 2019, alongside a disc-to-digital program that will allow you to convert your physical library into digital licenses via participating retailers.

    If you were concerned about whether or not this indicates a new trend for Microsoft, fear not, we've heard from multiple sources that the "Scarlett" family next-gen consoles will still have disc drives, at least as an option. The success of the disc-less SKU will no doubt determine whether or not Microsoft moves ahead with providing a separate, cheaper disc-less SKU for the Scarlett next-gen devices. We'll have to wait and see.

    According to our sources, there are two consoles currently being prepped, aiming for a 2020 holiday debut — a cheaper "S"-style console, to succeed the Xbox One S, and a more beastly "X"-style console, to succeed the Xbox One X. The codename for the "S 2" seems to be "Lockhart," and the codename for the "X 2" seems to be "Anaconda," which may also be serving as a dev kit.

    The next-gen Lockhart console will be the affordable SKU, providing the next-gen Xbox experience in a package potentially around as powerful as the current Xbox One X hardware wise, with refinements under the hood. The Anaconda console will be more powerful and more expensive, providing a cutting-edge console gaming experience. We've also heard Microsoft is exploring technology to dramatically reduce loading times, potentially including SSD storage in the package.


    https://www.windowscentral.com/what-...-latest-rumors

  20. Post
    #45
    Latency != throughput (although throughput is a function of latency).

    The whole idea of console generations being replaced by iterative upgrades (a la phones) bums me out so hard.

  21. Post
    #46
    why? why punish people who would buy iterative upgrades because some don't want to

    just like phones, no one forces you to buy a new phone ever year, so why should others be punished because you only want to buy one every 5 years

  22. Post
    #47
    SirGrim wrote:
    why? why punish people who would buy iterative upgrades because some don't want to

    just like phones, no one forces you to buy a new phone ever year, so why should others be punished because you only want to buy one every 5 years
    Because developers have proven themselves time and time again that when last-gen ports get handled concurrently with current-gen, they make a hash of it. Case in point is Forza Horizon 2 for X360, where they even chopped the playable area, cut the number of cars, changed payouts as well as downgraded the graphics - and this is one of Microsoft's 'holy trinity' titles!



    At some point, an older iteration of console is going to be thrown in the 'too hard' basket, where it'll be treated the same as our current last-gen and farmed out to a studio who doesn't really care if the game has even the same features as the one they're supposed to be porting. Thing is, it might not even take 5 years to reach that point.

    Also, like I said before, the phone analogy doesn't really hold water as the most popular games aren't really pushing the phone's capabilities.

  23. Post
    #48
    I don't think the jump from Xbox 360/PS3 to Xbox One/PS4 is a reasonable comparison moving forward, given the change to x86. There is no reason major hardware upgrades wouldn't be in line with Xbox One to Xbox One X, PS4 to PS4 Pro, which have been seamless.

  24. Post
    #49
    DW wrote:
    I don't think the jump from Xbox 360/PS3 to Xbox One/PS4 is a reasonable comparison moving forward, given the change to x86. There is no reason major hardware upgrades wouldn't be in line with Xbox One to Xbox One X, PS4 to PS4 Pro, which have been seamless.
    They're seamless because it's only one extra version that the developers are aiming for. For argument's sake, say MS enforces 7 year's worth of compatibility on yearly consoles, so for example a game would have to be running on:

    Xbox 2019
    Xbox 2020
    Xbox 2021
    Xbox 2022 etc. through to Xbox 2025

    That's 7 different systems, all designed to 'just work' with no config on the user's end. All the meanwhile, each system has to run the same game at playable framerates and with graphical fidelity that would at least have to look somewhat like the 2025 version (which is meant to be at the cutting edge) all while staying within the game's budget.

    In order for the 2019 version, which would have radically different tech inside it, to be at least similar to the 2025 version, It'd have to be treated like how we currently treat a different generation, the development budget would skyrocket otherwise. Either that, or the developers don't bother targeting the 2025 xbox as their platform of choice, in which case, what's the point of the iterative model?

  25. Post
    #50
    Pc games work on thousands of different hardware configurations, having seven predefined hardware specs with individual configs for each is hardly out of the realms of possibility.

    We've literally just seen them release an updated hardware spec in the Xbox One X 4 years after the initial console release whilst maintaining full compatibility.