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  1. Post
    #26
    Orz wrote:
    I don't think they'd be taking on this goliath legal battle if they weren't sure of it.
    And the same could be said about Stardock.

    It seems clear nobody can really pick a side (without bias) when all of the facts themselves aren't clear to either party involved.

  2. Post
    #27
    iRoN wrote:
    And the same could be said about Stardock.

    It seems clear nobody can really pick a side (without bias) when all of the facts themselves aren't clear to either party involved.
    Yep, absolutely. Both sides seem sure of what their rights are.

    I'm just saying that based on what both sides have put out thus far, I do get the impression that P&F seem quite satisfied about their position and Stardock seem to be overlooking it or unaware of it, in favor of focusing on other aspects (that would be irrelevant).

    I guess we'll see

  3. Post
    #28

  4. Post
    #29
    Indeed, but a tweet from Brad himself is close to worthless when it comes to his version of events - anybody who's been following his tirades would not trust him saying that Valve and GoG are in agreement and on Stardock's "side". They may be, but with only Brad's word for it - a person who now has a very sordid history of misinformation and outright vileness when it comes to the subject - it's as worthless a statement as it can get.

    Unfortunately though you won't be bothering to pay attention to the things he's said and done so far, will you Chris.

  5. Post
    #30
    Actually I've read and followed EVERYTHING. Unlike you apparently, because you still insist that the "wrong doing" is on the Stardock side. But as I said at the start and you're not interested in facts, but instead have taken a stance as a fan of PnF and seem unable to look past it.
    I don't actually care either way, but from a conduct perspective it's not Stardock that look like the main bad actors here. But again you're not actually interested in reality. I mean just look at how you titled this thread. And no I have no interest in your opinion here not for any personal reason but because your bias is so extreme you've lost all perspective. I am sticking to what I can read for myself from both sides.
    From everything I've seen Stardock certainly have not conducted themselves as they should, but that pales compared to the actual shit being pulled from the other side of things.

    I would think that by now you would know that of anyone here that I actually take the time to understand a situation and its history before commenting. I think at the very least people know that. To even suggest otherwise is insulting. I've earned at least that much. I don't take anything either party says at face value. I don't even put any stock in it tbh, you on the other hand seem to take anything PnF say as gospel. That is a problem.

    This needs to be settled in court if no agreement can be made.

    When it comes down to it, more shit and dickish behaviour has come from the PnF than from Brad or Stardock.

    I am not even remotely interested in debating this with you. Again, its not a lack of respect thing its just that I dont think you can see the other side at this point and I dont care to try an argue it. I understand your stance and as an obvious long-time fan I can even understand it, but from what I can see your view does not reflect the reality of what has transpired. Or more accurately you are prepared to forgive more on one side and see similar behaviour on the other as much worse.

    In the end you've got two parties acting poorly, but I only see one acting spitefully and with dubious merit overall. The DMCA was just their latest ploy, and it was a pathetic, dick move.

  6. Post
    #31
    ChrisB wrote:
    When it comes down to it, more shit and dickish behaviour has come from the PnF than from Brad or Stardock.
    You keep on saying this, without actually providing anything to back it up, while I've posted several links and quotes from Brad and things he's done. I don't see P&F verbally abusing people and otherwise lashing out repeatedly, culling non-positive comments, calling the community 'vile', or attempting hostile takeovers of community projects such as Ur-Quan Masters (which isn't even part of the lawsuit) but Brad has done and continues to do these things.

    Fan of P&F though I may be and naturally biased towards them though I may be, it should be obvious from this thread that I'm not incapable of seeing it from Stardock's side either and willing to give the benefit of the doubt where due. On the contrary you are the one that seems completely blind to them and I find it quite hard to believe you've "understand the situation and its history before commenting" - if so, what do you have to say about Brad's actions other than "you're a fanboy and P&F are dicks!". Most of your talk here revolves around just repeating that sentiment - P&F are being dicks, the fanboys are blind. While I've been providing quotes and links and examples, you've mostly just repeated those sentiments without backing them up. As far as I can tell, the few things you've hinted about P&F acting out of line is in regards to the legitimacy of their actual legal claims. In which case, Stardock has much more shit on their chins (and then there's them actually acting out of line, see above).

    Regarding the title, it might be a little flamboyant but it's really not far from the mark IMO. Stardock own the title name 'Star Control'. They also own the original content from Star Control 3. The rest, they do not own, including Star Control 2 content. Origins was originally marketed subtly as a prequel to Star Control 2, and arguably still is. It certainly looks like a copy (ripoff, if you use my flamboyant words) of SC2 in many regards (see the table P&F posted recently as an example). So I think the ripoff wording isn't really too far fetched.

    For the record, at this point I'm not angry about the lawsuit, I am very confident it will not turn out in Stardock's favor. But I am taken back that you choose to keep on piling on with essentially hollow comments, and seemingly feeling that you don't need to back any of it up because "I'm a fanboy and I'm ignoring it all anyway".

  7. Post
    #32
    That table is pretty bollocks tho, I done remember where I got these ones from as it was a while ago but I enjoyed the parody version.

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  8. Post
    #33
    yeahboiwahoo wrote:
    That table is pretty bollocks tho, I done remember where I got these ones from as it was a while ago but I enjoyed the parody version.

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    Yeah, that first one you posted is actually from Brad himself. There's a bit of confusion (sadly also from Brad himself) about the point of the image . I realize it must seem hilarious when you look at it out of context, but it's missing the point entirely - it isn't about the individual elements being similar, it's about the whole thing being similar and these are examples of how. Obviously Fortnite is not similar in any way to any Star Control, but Star Control Origins is very, very similar to Star Control 2, and the purpose of the image is to give an example of that.

    On the contrary, once you realize that's the point of the image, it makes Brad's response to be the humorous one - his response is essentially "Look! All these individual elements are fine on their own, so it doesn't mean the whole thing together is obviously a copy!". He either doesn't realize that, or he does realize it but he's still shouting to sway opinion/make P&F look bad anyway - I'm erring towards the latter as his response to the final item in that table about autopilot is straight up untrue anyway - "this is false, you get towed back to Earth"? WTF? Origins absolutely has autopilot, including heading back to Earth.

    The courts won't care about the meme potential, they will see it for what it is (and I doubt this table itself will be used, but the premise will).

  9. Post
    #34
    At this point Chris has yet to post anything showing how P&F are "showing more dickish behavior" and are "on the wrong side of things" at all, but easily writes off anything I've mentioned/shown from Stardock's side as "rabid fanboyism". Once again, fan though I may be, it doesn't make the things I've linked or said invalid.

    Here's a few things. Don't forget that STARDOCK are the ones that initially sued P&F for quarter of a million bucks, a public apology, and to never refer to themselves as the original creators (after initially giving saying they'd be happy for P&F to make a sequel - shown on Stardock's write-up of events page). After this (as mentioned a couple of posts up) they started applying for trademarks for various content from Star Control 2 - again, they don't ****ing own this, they only own the name Star Control and the Star Control 3 content.

    Here's buddy old pal Brad Wardell trying to takeover the UQM forums/community as part of his scorched Earth policy, note him saying that he's "moving to all-out war" and the community has "existed at his tolerance" (LOL?) but it's time for "that vile little community to be eliminated" (seriously? Please, defend this for me Chris and provide anything approaching a similar behavior from P&F). Here's some more of him generally being awful and voicing how he wishes to "get rid of the hives" and trying to insist that P&F have 'no rights whatsoever' to anything Star Control


    That's just a couple of things. I could go on, but it's a lot of effort when it just gets shot down with "nah you're just a fanboy so it doesnt matter". It's seriously a running joke in the community just how nuts Brad has become since this thing kicked off.

  10. Post
    #35
    You know what, let's not stop there. Let's look at the two settlement offers the parties offered before trial, and you can convince me Stardock aren't being dicks here Chris:

    Stardock

    Fred and Paul must surrender all their IP rights to the classic Star Control games to Stardock.

    Fred and Paul never again use the words “STAR CONTROL” or “GHOSTS OF THE PRECURSORS” or “THE UR-QUAN MASTERS”.

    For the next 5 years, Fred and Paul do not work on any game similar to the classic Star Control games.

    Fred and Paul issue a public apology to Stardock.

    Fred and Paul never again challenge Stardock’s rights to STAR CONTROL trademark or STAR CONTROL 3 copyright.

    Fred and Paul pay Stardock $225,000.

    Fred and Paul never again call themselves the “creators” of the classic Star Control games.



    vs.



    Fred and Paul, the original creators

    Both sides agree not to interfere with each other’s new game development moving forward.

    Both sides agree to contribute SCI, SCII and SC3 to the Ur-Quan Masters open source project for non-commercial use and to stop selling the games through any channels.

    Both side agree not to “pass off” or “free ride” on the other’s good will or reputation.

    Fred and Paul won’t infringe on the Star Dock’s trademark and Stardock won’t infringe on Fred and Paul’s copyrights.

    Fred and Paul won’t challenge Stardock’s trademark registrations for “Star Control” and Stardock will withdraw their recent trademark applications for the “Ur-Quan Masters”, “Super Melee” and other various alien races from the classic games.

    Both sides do their best to avoid confusion as to the origins of their respective new games.

    Both sides will publish an agreeable statement explaining the settlement.

    Neither side will disparage the other.

    Each side will pay their own expenses and attorney’s fees.

    Either side may disclose the final settlement agreement to anyone.

    Notice also how the very first item of Stardock's settlement "agreement" is for F&P to surrender their IP rights. You'd think Stardock wouldn't be asking for that if they, you know, actually owned them already, like they have constantly been acting as if they have....

  11. Post
    #36
    So, to bring a close to this tale: it has finally been settled. Out-of-court.

    https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2019/6/11/the-only-way-to-win-is

    Some key points:

    Stardock dropped all its alien name and character trademarks and all parties have dropped their oppositions to each other’s trademarks.

    Stardock accepts that Paul & Fred are the creators of Star Control and Star Control II.

    Stardock is dropping all trademark registration of the alien names and won't use the described aliens without permission from Paul & Fred.

    Both sides recognize each other’s copyrights and will not challenge them in the future.

    Stardock will create new games in the Star Control franchise. Paul & Fred will create new games in the Ur-Quan Masters franchise.



    Let's compare this to the original settlement terms that P&F offered when they first got sued:

    Both sides agree not to interfere with each other’s new game development moving forward.
    Both sides agree to contribute SCI, SCII and SC3 to the Ur-Quan Masters open source project for non-commercial use and to stop selling the games through any channels.
    Both side agree not to “pass off” or “free ride” on the other’s good will or reputation.
    Fred and Paul won’t infringe on the Star Dock’s trademark and Stardock won’t infringe on Fred and Paul’s copyrights.
    Fred and Paul won’t challenge Stardock’s trademark registrations for “Star Control” and Stardock will withdraw their recent trademark applications for the “Ur-Quan Masters”, “Super Melee” and other various alien races from the classic games.
    Both sides do their best to avoid confusion as to the origins of their respective new games.
    Both sides will publish an agreeable statement explaining the settlement.
    Neither side will disparage the other.
    Each side will pay their own expenses and attorney’s fees.
    Either side may disclose the final settlement agreement to anyone.
    Along with Brad Wardell's demands which basically amounted to 'suck my dick, pay me':

    Fred and Paul must surrender all their IP rights to the classic Star Control games to Stardock.
    Fred and Paul never again use the words “STAR CONTROL” or “GHOSTS OF THE PRECURSORS” or “THE UR-QUAN MASTERS”.
    For the next 5 years, Fred and Paul do not work on any game similar to the classic Star Control games.
    Fred and Paul issue a public apology to Stardock.
    Fred and Paul never again challenge Stardock’s rights to STAR CONTROL trademark or STAR CONTROL 3 copyright.
    Fred and Paul pay Stardock $225,000.
    Fred and Paul never again call themselves the “creators” of the classic Star Control games.


    So as you can see, in the end, this is essentially all that P&F originally wanted - to be able to continue the series they originally created - before Stardock shit themselves and attempted to sue them for ridiculous demands. Stardock doesn't really gain any of the things that they were demanding, and fair enough - I'm sure they realized taking it court would be hopeless given the above outcomes over trademark ownership etc. And after already spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to get nowhere, settling things amicably as-is is the best result - pity it even had to happen in the first place, and shame on Stardock (more specifically Brad Wardell himself) but at least they get to make their own genuine sequel(s) now and at least there is agreement/definition that Stardock's 'Star Control' is a separate thing.

    ...Additionally, Brad Wardell will be helping Paul with beehives, and Paul will be helping Brad with mead-making. Yes, seriously - turns out they both have genuine interests in these areas.
    Last edited by Orz; 12th June 2019 at 3:49 pm.

  12. Post
    #37
    fascinating tale


  13. Post
    #38
    Visualized, in terms of which side got what they originally asked for:

    Brad Wardell's original 'suck my dick' lawsuit that he slammed them with:

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    P&F's counter-offer to try and settle things amicably:

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    Hopefully this helps clear things up for ChrisB who for some reason seemed to think P&F were big bad nasties trying to milk Stardock for money for no reason.