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Consuming Cannabis ...

43 people have voted on this poll. You may not vote on this poll

... is a health issue (discuss)
21 48.84%
... is a criminal act (discuss)
4 9.30%
... is like smoking and should be discouraged (discuss)
6 13.95%
... could be done another way (discuss)
12 27.91%
  1. Question
    #1

    Cannabis

    So a referendum is on its way. We probably should take the time to discuss the pros and cons of these issues here.

    I thought we should have some 'serious' discussion here.

  2. Post
    #2
    Pros - Everything
    Cons - Nothing.

    I think there's already a thread on the topic in OD.

  3. Post
    #3
    I was going to vote, but the options don't really make sense to me.

    I am for legalising it, no question. Edibles mean smoking it is not a requirement. The advantages of having it available for every day medical problems out ways any problems people will claim it will cause. 2c. It's working wonders in places where it is legal. The original reason it was made illegal is just laughable. Most people have no idea about it and just parrot what the mainstream media tell them to. Most people probably have no idea why it was made illegal in the first place, in fact.

  4. Post
    #4
    Prohibition hasn't stopped people from smoking weed. Legalising gives the opportunity to promote safer methods of consumption, and will encourage the use of better driver and employee testing methods that detect impaired users rather than someone who has used it in the last month. Legal weed will also divert a large chunk of gang money into Government coffers. Bring on legal weed.

  5. Post
    #5
    Legalise it in the form of edibles or non-combustive forms. Legalisation will likely mean more people smoking, and smoking weed is bad for your health. There might be a spike in tobacco consumption too, as for some weird reason many people enjoy a spliff. Best to head that one off. Edibles, and oil/waxes (for vaping) are a more difficult product to manufacture and sell than generic plant material, and edibles at least *might* come under some additional regulation for quality control for human consumption. All this spells better regulatory control over who accesses the product, and how that is achieved. Personally I don't want to see everyone growing the stuff. I want to see a high grade and quality-controlled, taxable product.

    I voted it's a health issue. I've had and seen mental health issues exacerbated by overuse of cannabis. It's not a good choice for someone who has a history of depression and in my case it led to tremendous anxiety. If it is voted to be legalised, I hope our health services are ready for an influx, and I hope there is a clear message of the risks.
    Last edited by capriv8; 21st December 2018 at 9:00 am.

  6. Post
    #6
    capriv8 wrote:
    Legalise it in the form of edibles or non-combustive forms. Legalisation will likely mean more people smoking, and smoking weed is bad for your health.
    I don't think that should be a reason for it being illegal. Mountain biking for example can also be very bad for your physical wellbeing if/when you have an accident, but I don't think that should be illegal.

  7. Post
    #7
    DW wrote:
    I don't think that should be a reason for it being illegal. Mountain biking for example can also be very bad for your physical wellbeing if/when you have an accident, but I don't think that should be illegal.
    I can't argue with that - but I do expect mountain biking would perform better in a social cost/benefit analysis than smoking weed.

    What are the quantifiable positives to smoking weed that offset the mental and physical health issues?

  8. Post
    #8
    capriv8 wrote:
    I can't argue with that - but I do expect mountain biking would perform better in a social cost/benefit analysis than smoking weed.

    What are the quantifiable positives to smoking weed that offset the mental and physical health issues?
    I think it's application as a relaxant can't be overlooked, a lot of people can benefit from "unwinding" in today's society, and smoking cannabis is certainly a way that works for many people. Beyond that, pain alleviation for both short/long term pain management.

    Ultimately I still come back to the point that even if you didn't agree with the above, I find it difficult to see how it's use should be managed by our justice system. Many of the "concerns" I hear from people such as it being a gateway drug would actually be alleviated if it were legal.

  9. Post
    #9
    It can be so valuable as a therapeutic tool. Imo that should be it's main use.

    I definitely agree that possessing or using weed shouldn't be a criminal act - the justice system just shouldn't come into personal use. But it's availability should be regulated firmly. I wonder what the stats from Portugal or Netherlands show, re the gateway argument.

    The point that 'legalise it' advocates frequently make, that I just can't get on board with is 'It grows in nature so why should it be restricted?". My feelings are that the "natural" product is so damn far from what it originally was. Due to selection and other means, we have these super strains where one bucky hit is like a punch to the face. People already go out of their way to drink themselves into oblivion. I am cautious of the outcomes of an unregulated market.

  10. Post
    #10
    capriv8 wrote:
    People already go out of their way to drink themselves into oblivion. I am cautious of the outcomes of an unregulated market.
    I think its a reasonable assumption to say it would be less problematic than the current alcohol situation. I'd much rather people smoked themselves to oblivion than get shit-faced drunk, they're (imo) far less likely to cause any serious harm to themselves or others.

  11. Post
    #11
    capriv8 wrote:
    Legalise it in the form of edibles or non-combustive forms. Legalisation will likely mean more people smoking, and smoking weed is bad for your health. There might be a spike in tobacco consumption too, as for some weird reason many people enjoy a spliff. Best to head that one off. Edibles, and oil/waxes (for vaping) are a more difficult product to manufacture and sell than generic plant material, and edibles at least *might* come under some additional regulation for quality control for human consumption. All this spells better regulatory control over who accesses the product, and how that is achieved. Personally I don't want to see everyone growing the stuff. I want to see a high grade and quality-controlled, taxable product.

    I voted it's a health issue. I've had and seen mental health issues exacerbated by overuse of cannabis. It's not a good choice for someone who has a history of depression and in my case it led to tremendous anxiety. If it is voted to be legalised, I hope our health services are ready for an influx, and I hope there is a clear message of the risks.
    It depends on the strain higher CBD strains for eg has been shown to relieve anxiety, in your case the higher THC strain possibly sped up the underlying condition rather than causing it as it would have been low in CBD.

    To me its about the social cost of keeping it illegal vs the social cost of legalizing it.

  12. Post
    #12
    DW wrote:
    I think it's application as a relaxant can't be overlooked, a lot of people can benefit from "unwinding" in today's society, and smoking cannabis is certainly a way that works for many people. Beyond that, pain alleviation for both short/long term pain management.
    There was a while where I used beer/wine to "unwind at end of the day" and it slowly became 6-8 beers/bottle of wine every night and despite wanting to cut back, I always found my self repeating the cycle and started wondering why I was starting to get anxiety and worry about stupid shit...cutting back on the grog not surprisingly fixed the anxiety. Moral of the story is, I'm pretty sure (and others have stated it in the OD thread) that you can get the same increases in anxiety with weed and "dependence" (not the right word I know) that you think you need to be doing it to unwind

  13. Post
    #13
    Indigo1 wrote:
    There was a while where I used beer/wine to "unwind at end of the day" and it slowly became 6-8 beers/bottle of wine every night and despite wanting to cut back, I always found my self repeating the cycle and started wondering why I was starting to get anxiety and worry about stupid shit...cutting back on the grog not surprisingly fixed the anxiety. Moral of the story is, I'm pretty sure (and others have stated it in the OD thread) that you can get the same increases in anxiety with weed and "dependence" (not the right word I know) that you think you need to be doing it to unwind
    I'm sure you can, but that doesn't a) take away from the fact that many people have self control and can use it in moderation, or b) justify it being a criminal issue.

  14. Post
    #14
    DW wrote:
    I'm sure you can, but that doesn't a) take away from the fact that many people have self control and can use it in moderation, or b) justify it being a criminal issue.
    I don't really like the lack of self-control/personal responsibility not to do something, but we as society are just so awful at it.

    9% of people who try weed will develop a dependence, so even if a conservative estimate of only 10,000 new people trying it, would see ~900 develop a dependence. That's a lot of people, when you consider how under resourced our addiction services are.

  15. Post
    #15
    Indigo1 wrote:
    I don't really like the lack of self-control/personal responsibility not to do something, but we as society are just so awful at it.

    9% of people who try weed will develop a dependence, so even if a conservative estimate of only 10,000 new people trying it, would see ~900 develop a dependence. That's a lot of people, when you consider how under resourced our addiction services are.
    So instead of opening up new avenues to improve addiction services, we should treat those 9% of people who are going to try it legal or otherwise, as criminals?

  16. Post
    #16
    Indigo1 wrote:
    I don't really like the lack of self-control/personal responsibility not to do something, but we as society are just so awful at it.

    9% of people who try weed will develop a dependence, so even if a conservative estimate of only 10,000 new people trying it, would see ~900 develop a dependence. That's a lot of people, when you consider how under resourced our addiction services are.
    Can you point to evidence of this occurring in the numerous US states which have legalized it?

  17. Post
    #17
    What do you define as a dependence? Do all people that depend on something require addiction services? If so, a silly number of people depend on alcohol But I very much doubt many of them seek any sort of addiction services to deal with their problem. They don't see it as a problem, getting pissed every weekend is just normal in NZ. Alcohol is much worse on society IMO, than what weed would be. What about synthetic weed, and how many people that kills here each year. It's a pretty complex problem, addiction.

  18. Post
    #18
    People get addicted to and dependent on coffee

  19. Post
    #19
    Fragluton wrote:
    What do you define as a dependence?
    Addiction—or compulsive drug use despite harmful consequences—is characterized by an inability to stop using a drug; failure to meet work, social, or family obligations; and, sometimes (depending on the drug), tolerance and withdrawal. The latter reflect physical dependence in which the body adapts to the drug, requiring more of it to achieve a certain effect (tolerance) and eliciting drug-specific physical or mental symptoms if drug use is abruptly ceased (withdrawal)
    https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...cal-dependence

  20. Post
    #20
    ClavulanateV2 wrote:
    Can you point to evidence of this occurring in the numerous US states which have legalized it?
    I found this recent narrative review which suggests it's too early to tell and preliminary results are incosistent...the Effects of Legal Recreational Cannabis section is well worth a read. https://link.springer.com/article/10...429-018-0224-9

    They also found that the THC content of cannabis flower increased, with the proportion having a THC content of greater than 15% increasing over 2 years from 79.6 to 92.5%. As the THC content of cannabis products has increased, the contribution of taxes to the price per gram of cannabis has more than halved. This trend is inconsistent with the “Iron Law of Prohibition” according to which increased drug potency is an effect of tougher enforcement of criminal laws.

    The increased potency of legal cannabis products raises concerns about an increase in adverse health effects, such as cannabis dependence, poor mental health and psychotic symptoms

  21. Post
    #21
    Iirc that’s mostly due to taxing on weight rather than % so everyone just makes it super strong . Canada has a far better legalisation model

  22. Post
    #22
    capriv8 wrote:
    It can be so valuable as a therapeutic tool. Imo that should be it's main use.
    So is it legal or not? If it's prescription only then not much is going to change. All kinds of evil shit is available on prescription.

    capriv8 wrote:
    The point that 'legalise it' advocates frequently make, that I just can't get on board with is 'It grows in nature so why should it be restricted?". My feelings are that the "natural" product is so damn far from what it originally was. Due to selection and other means, we have these super strains where one bucky hit is like a punch to the face. People already go out of their way to drink themselves into oblivion. I am cautious of the outcomes of an unregulated market.
    Obviously the "grows in nature" argument is bullshit. Opium grows in nature and you'd have a nightmare on your hands if that was available at the shops.

    Arguably it would be a public health benefit if more people consumed cannabis than drank alcohol. The emergency rooms would certainly save a lot of money.

    -

    Indigo1 wrote:
    9% of people who try weed will develop a dependence
    9% of people would probably get addicted to sticking their finger up their ass. There's a difference between being addicted to doing something you enjoy and being addicted to something like alcohol or heroin where you become violently ill if you stop.

  23. Post
    #23
    Or aggressive enough to commit crimes/harm people when you don't have access to it..... how many people burgle homes/mug people/prostitute themselves out when they don't have their morning coffee?

  24. Post
    #24
    Are you suggesting this would happen with cannabis?

  25. Post
    #25
    Fragluton wrote:
    Are you suggesting this would happen with cannabis?
    Me? No