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  1. Post
    wrighty wrote:
    That’s possible but foolhardy and unlikely.
    A proper analysis would show he and Ross don’t need to do anything different

    They just need more batting support from the lower middle order and openers
    Well you can debate the merits and what not - but I bet the IPL pays KW a ton load more than captaining NZ does, so there's really no point in nonsense complaining about the IPL... cos if I was KW and was forced to choose one or the other... I'm taking that IPL deal that pays double what NZ pays him and only takes 2 months to complete...

    NZ's real problem imo is KW is the only batsman good enough in this country to keep a well paid IPL deal... they don't want Taylor, Gup, Nicholls or Latham... that's the real issue... Our batsmen are just not good enough despite their impressive SL, Bang and WI at home bashing stats...

  2. Post
    Paddles wrote:
    Lol... NZ sucks... just accept it... India played only 3 bowlers at us... they batted deep... and they still won...
    No doubt they're a very frustrating watch a lot of the time, because they don't tend to learn from their mistakes, so just keep on repeating the same silly errors, they have shown though they can play really well, so gets really annoying when they perform like headless chooks.

    As you basically mentioned earlier in this thread the youth players need to be coached much better on the basics so they execute their batting, bowling & fielding well & don't get into bad habits, for example the bowlers can also build on their skills practicing deliveries like yorkers and slower balls a lot etc, so when they come through to domestic comp they have the skill & confidence to execute those skills, also making them better players at international level.

  3. Post
    <N> wrote:
    https://streamable.com/qa4za

    Kane looked disappointed Taylor didn't review it, Kane cannot physically signal for a review as he wasn't the striker.

    "Taylor had sought Williamson's advice in the middle, wondering if the ball had struck him too high on the pads. The Black Caps captain could not come up with a strong thought, and Taylor kept walking "

  4. Post
    Regardless of the semantics like the Superbowl today where the defensive teams suffocated the offense, the Indian bowling was too good for the NZ batting.

  5. Post
    voy1dnz wrote:
    Regardless of the semantics like the Superbowl today where the defensive teams suffocated the offense, the Indian bowling was too good for the NZ batting.
    Hahaaha

  6. Post
    Paddles wrote:
    What's Bracewell gonna do? Go for less runs? Lol!

    If Bracewell is the answer, cricket is not a question I want to entertain...

    Forget this world cup, NZ suck right now... that's all there is to it... we need to play more games at home vs Bangladesh and SL and make ourselves feel better about NZ cricket...

    Sure shoulda Kuggs bowled some bouncers... maybe - but he don't bat against top quality wrist spin... and good batsmen hook and pull him... Should Young have played... yeah - but he's taken years to start scoring domestic centuries...

    By the time the WC is on - super rugby will be in finals flow... lets watch a sport where we only lose to the Irish ;-)
    I agree re Bracewell, I'd rather Corey Anderson than Bracewell or CDG for a start.... obviously it's unlikely we'll play two spinners during the WC so we'll have an extra seamer there. You'd be mental not to pick Corey's batting over CdG and bowling is a toss-up.

    Not forgetting this world cup at all, we're not in great form but if these guys click anything is possible... surely Pakistan are testament to that? They were absolutely horrific just before the last Champions Trophy, the first game they got absolutely smashed too... then they won it.

    NZ are not peaking now but it's not like it's impossible. We generally punch above our weight at world cups. We were hardly ripping and tearing before the last WC either, some close games against Sri Lanka at home... we pretty much peaked at the right time. Even Bangladesh nearly toppled us.

    If Munro and CDG are both retained for the Bangladesh series then I've pretty much lost most of the hopes I had.

  7. Post
    If only the whole team would click all at once for a change instead of just 2 or 3 of them.

  8. Post
    <N> wrote:
    I agree re Bracewell, I'd rather Corey Anderson than Bracewell or CDG for a start.... obviously it's unlikely we'll play two spinners during the WC so we'll have an extra seamer there. You'd be mental not to pick Corey's batting over CdG and bowling is a toss-up.

    Not forgetting this world cup at all, we're not in great form but if these guys click anything is possible... surely Pakistan are testament to that? They were absolutely horrific just before the last Champions Trophy, the first game they got absolutely smashed too... then they won it.

    NZ are not peaking now but it's not like it's impossible. We generally punch above our weight at world cups. We were hardly ripping and tearing before the last WC either, some close games against Sri Lanka at home... we pretty much peaked at the right time. Even Bangladesh nearly toppled us.

    If Munro and CDG are both retained for the Bangladesh series then I've pretty much lost most of the hopes I had.
    Last WC we had whopped India the summer before, won away in UAE without McCullum, smashing SL and only SA seemed to cause us bother. And it was at home. I was feeling very confident a long way out about NZ making it deep into the finals. Even then we got lucky with rain vs SA...

    Stead is a dead set goose sending CdG out to face Chahal instead of Santner and Tastle, he doesn't read wrist spinner variations. It's impossible for NZC to keep this a secret any longer, the world knows it by now. Corey fares much better here. Corey just isn't bowling as he was at his peak and banging the ball in. The days of him fixing the team balance seem far less likely.

    I don't think we can compare NZ to Pak cricket, the latter who are just a meme culture of regulatly causing the most sensational upsets as well as blunders but because Pakistan before that tournament had a great bowling line up, and knew it, but they were worried about their shaky batting line up. That shaky batting line up at that tournament included Fakhar and Babar, who now, both have career averages over 50! Imam also have an average north of 60 I think (but this includes a ton of minnow bashing). So my point is, where is NZ's exciting new talent to compare us with Pak who took Imad, Shadhab, H Ali, Babar and Farkhar... (Fakhar actually debut'd during the tournament, and Shadhab not long before it began)...

    The ammount of home support that India and Pak will receive in England is huge. Simply massive. They're basically playing at home too over there. NZ is in a very different position to Pakistan who are taking young talent to this cup again as well developing the likes of Shaheen Afridi and Usman Shinwari, with the continuation of established players like Amir and Ali.

    Who was the last quick NZ developed? Ferg is the only one since the last world cup. The only one. It has been Milne, Henry, Mitch, Boult, Bracewell and Southee for 6 years now... We have not brought a single batsman in since Nicholls and Munro in 2015 but a quick flirt with Chapman who really wasn't upto it based on his t20 and some painful and questionable selections of Worker. Bruce was never even given an opportunity.

    We have no idea whether Young is upto the task. We have no idea if Hamish Rutherford is upto the task now. We have no idea on Bennett either. Nor have we developed Scott Kug's talent into something more knowing that he will pitch a lot of short rubbish in-between some good balls.

    We invested a ton into Phillips, Seifert, Blundell and Watling which seems to have been a total waste. But at least we know this.

    NZ may look at the rankings and smile, but the problem is, India and England above us, and the rest below us, have developed more players, and know what their players are capable of at intl cricket. Australia's only guessing is whether Warner and Smith hit form. They have developed Stoinis' bowling. They have found out Short has issues. They know what Jhye, NCN, and more of their quicks offer in support. Perhaps they are stuck having to play Zampa as Agar struggles and Lyon has not been gold, but at least they know.

    If NZ want to be the surprise package at this cup, they need a very lucky run of clouds... and have Boult and Southee/Henry cause mayhem.... and then hope that the teams batting to 8 or lower don't recover to beat NZ anyway...

    Now I sense that the lack of player development is down to two real factors, our boys do not play enough cricket on tour (in test format) or at home to need or want breaks, and the low salaries means that the senior players want to play every game to bank their money. Now NZC is unable to make money out of nowhere, but SA still develops new players at intl consistently and they lost ABdV to money arguably. But we could try and get over to Africa, Asia and WI more often... and play more games...

    And we could start releasing some of our top players to go play some BBL or what not when we have rubbish seam teams touring here. Or start giving serious weight to the A tours like Eng and India do.
    Last edited by Paddles; 5th February 2019 at 2:06 am.

  9. Post
    I agree about the timing of CdG, but I’d have thought the captain would have some say in that too? He didn’t pick the first two googlys and was made a fool of, then the third one, again which he didn’t pick got his wicket. I just don’t see what he offers; sure he got a few wickets the other day, but any half decent bowler would’ve done well in those conditions. Him and Munro will be cannon fodder on flat tracks.

    Jamieson and Tickner are good examples of young talented quicks coming through. Wheeler has potential if he can stay injury free.

    To their credit, they invested in the NZA programme this year and it looked to be really worthwhile,,,shame it came at the expense of a few rounds of Plunket Shield though.

  10. Post
    No to Corey Anderson.

    If for no other reason than last times' lower middle order was Neesham, Santner Anderson and it failed. It will be exactly the same if we pick Corey.

    Pick one of
    Wheeler
    Kuggs
    Bracewelll

    Those are your options for a bowling all rounder.

  11. Post
    wrighty wrote:
    No to Corey Anderson.

    If for no other reason than last times' lower middle order was Neesham, Santner Anderson and it failed. It will be exactly the same if we pick Corey.

    Pick one of
    Wheeler
    Kuggs
    Bracewelll

    Those are your options for a bowling all rounder.
    I'm all for NZC to develop Kuggs, but he won't ready in time for the WC...

    Bracewell and Wheeler makes me want to cry...

  12. Post
    Indigo1 wrote:
    I agree about the timing of CdG, but I’d have thought the captain would have some say in that too? He didn’t pick the first two googlys and was made a fool of, then the third one, again which he didn’t pick got his wicket. I just don’t see what he offers; sure he got a few wickets the other day, but any half decent bowler would’ve done well in those conditions. Him and Munro will be cannon fodder on flat tracks.
    Munro fares quite well on flat tracks. He just doesn't get wickets. CdG is an exceptional bowler if there is swing and seam, he is a genuine threat, but if there's no swing and seam, he is as you put it, simply cannon fodder.

    If CdG plays, he has to be used smartly. That means not sending him out during a legspinner's spell. But this is a huge problem to navigate as teams may hold overs back just to get at him in the final 8 overs...

  13. Post
    Paddles wrote:
    Munro fares quite well on flat tracks. He just doesn't get wickets. CdG is an exceptional bowler if there is swing and seam, he is a genuine threat, but if there's no swing and seam, he is as you put it, simply cannon fodder.

    If CdG plays, he has to be used smartly. That means not sending him out during a legspinner's spell. But this is a huge problem to navigate as teams may hold overs back just to get at him in the final 8 overs...
    But is our think tank smart. Paddles you were the only person on the interweb I noticed pointing out CDG's weakness against wrist spin months ago. The powers that be have not had that penny drop for them yet.
    So some days I want to give up and just accept we have a muppets leading the parade. Then I remind myself of all the decisions they do get right.
    1) They did move on replacing Munro and choosing Nicholls to replace him instead of Latham was astute.
    2) In 2015 they brought Boult into the ODI team amidst many fans saying he should be a test specialist.
    3) In 2017 they reinvented Latham as a number 5 and it paid off.
    4) They courageously seem to have pushed Southee to the sideline in ODI's for the time being. That is only a call someone with big Kahuna's would make.
    5) They stuck with Henry as the new opening partner for Boult rather than experimenting and he paid off in the last match.
    6) They doggedly stuck with Nicholls and the made the ICC test team of the year.
    7) They picked Santner from obscurity.
    They have picked Kuggs and Tickner for the recent T20 squad.

    Mostly they get it right, but it just seems like they are loyal to a guy for an extra 6-8 games more than I would have been.

    It isn't too late to bring in Kugg's as a third seamer position batting at 8 or 9. There's no time to lose in that he will need to play all the Banger's games, but yeah. Be decisive. Move quickly. He who hesitates is lost.

  14. Post
    wrighty wrote:
    But is our think tank smart. Paddles you were the only person on the interweb I noticed pointing out CDG's weakness against wrist spin months ago. The powers that be have not had that penny drop for them yet.
    So some days I want to give up and just accept we have a muppets leading the parade. Then I remind myself of all the decisions they do get right.
    1) They did move on replacing Munro and choosing Nicholls to replace him instead of Latham was astute.
    2) In 2015 they brought Boult into the ODI team amidst many fans saying he should be a test specialist.
    3) In 2017 they reinvented Latham as a number 5 and it paid off.
    4) They courageously seem to have pushed Southee to the sideline in ODI's for the time being. That is only a call someone with big Kahuna's would make.
    5) They stuck with Henry as the new opening partner for Boult rather than experimenting and he paid off in the last match.
    6) They doggedly stuck with Nicholls and the made the ICC test team of the year.
    7) They picked Santner from obscurity.
    They have picked Kuggs and Tickner for the recent T20 squad.

    Mostly they get it right, but it just seems like they are loyal to a guy for an extra 6-8 games more than I would have been.

    It isn't too late to bring in Kugg's as a third seamer position batting at 8 or 9. There's no time to lose in that he will need to play all the Banger's games, but yeah. Be decisive. Move quickly. He who hesitates is lost.
    Re: CdG IPL 2017 raised the question initially, Chahal and Kuldeep in India on BC tour (remember the game NZ lose with the chase's back broken and CdG left not out batting at thin air... Indian management already knew then based on IPL - 2017/18...) then Shadhab at home last summer left no doubt... (he came out to bat in Shadhab's last over when he gets the 70 and yes he tonks Shadhab for 6... but it's hit out or get out, not batsmanship. IPL 2018 was ugly... If NZC are not aware of this after Yasir in the UAE - they should fall on their swords. I want to know what CdG and NZC are doing to remedy this? Has he spent a 4 hour nession in the nets vs Sohdi and Astle? He doesn't even need to bat. He could just simply stand there, first its about picking variations from the hand. Now I get its difficult, but he needs to upskill for his own good and the good of the team... Munro sorted himself out against left arm and wrist spinners... I believe CdG can too... but it needs to be worked at...

    But a lot of what you're talking about was Hess and Edgar. They're gone now.

    Latham had no choice but to be tried at 5, cos he was failing at opening (remember SA and Aus touring here) and we needed a wicket keeper to replace Ronchi.

    Boult was a wise move by Hesson. But he's gone now. CdG in the test team was a wise move too if the opposition aint playing wrist spinners.

    Southee is not a courage call, we should be rotating our quicks to develop and create depth. And see who is best.

    But most of what you're praising them for is Hess (or Hess and Edgar). They did a fine job. They're gone now though.

    Hesson even selected the original squads to the UAE.... praise Nicholls on him.
    Last edited by Paddles; 5th February 2019 at 9:48 pm.

  15. Post
    Super excited for the double header today

  16. Post
    <N> wrote:
    Munro
    Seifert (ugh)
    Williamson
    Taylor
    Neesham
    Mitchell
    de Grandhomme
    Bracewell
    Kuggelejin
    Santner
    Ferguson

    Likely team imo, dat all-rounder stack...
    Sidefart just seems like such a waste of a selection, he looks like another Phillips.

  17. Post
    Indigo1 wrote:
    Sidefart just seems like such a waste of a selection, he looks like another Phillips.
    I realised I forgot Sodhi... chuck him in for one of Bracewell/CDG.

    Seifert has barely got a run this year in any form. Not going to end well if he opens.

  18. Post
    Stupid Smash getting in the way of more of our fringe players having a run against Bangas unfortunately

    New Zealand XI squad: Jeet Raval (Auckland, captain), Andrew Fletcher (Wellington), Rachin Ravindra (Wellington), Finn Allen (Auckland), Dale Phillips (Auckland), Katene Clarke (ND), Sean Solia (Auckland), Max Chu (Otago, wk), Theo van Woerkom (Canterbury), Iain McPeake (Wellington), Andrew Hazeldine (Canterbury), Jamie Brown (Auckland).

  19. Post
    Indigo1 wrote:
    Sidefart just seems like such a waste of a selection, he looks like another Phillips.
    mate, hes the GOAT

  20. Post
    Indigo1 wrote:
    Stupid Smash getting in the way of more of our fringe players having a run against Bangas unfortunately

    New Zealand XI squad: Jeet Raval (Auckland, captain), Andrew Fletcher (Wellington), Rachin Ravindra (Wellington), Finn Allen (Auckland), Dale Phillips (Auckland), Katene Clarke (ND), Sean Solia (Auckland), Max Chu (Otago, wk), Theo van Woerkom (Canterbury), Iain McPeake (Wellington), Andrew Hazeldine (Canterbury), Jamie Brown (Auckland).
    Fletcher made runs this year in Ford Trophy. Solia has been running hot and cold for a while now. Ravindra is the big hope for the future and NZA player. Raval is clearly a test player. Theo played for NZA. Finn Allen is a mild hope for the future. Bar pacemen, this is actually a strong side... There's plenty of batting talent of display, Theo does alright as a spinner in limited overs, and its really only light on pacemen.

  21. Post
    Lol at the Indian National Anthem. It's like Bollywood dance music.

  22. Post
    Paddles wrote:
    Fletcher made runs this year in Ford Trophy. Solia has been running hot and cold for a while now. Ravindra is the big hope for the future and NZA player. Raval is clearly a test player. Theo played for NZA. Finn Allen is a mild hope for the future. Bar pacemen, this is actually a strong side...
    Yea but most aren't knocking on the door of the Black Caps - those are the players who should be given priority for getting experience against intl. sides

  23. Post
    Please tell me the mens team wont be wearing those god-awful Aotearoa shirts

  24. Post
    Indigo1 wrote:
    Yea but most aren't knocking on the door of the Black Caps - those are the players who should be given priority for getting experience against intl. sides
    Every year I hope for Solia to knock on the door. Fletcher did score a lot of runs in Ford Trophy... Ravindra will be a Black Cap sooner than you think... I'd go as far to say, if Will Young doesn't replace Ross Taylor in the test team when he retires, Ravindra will...

  25. Post
    Black Plague*** wrote:
    Please tell me the mens team wont be wearing those god-awful Aotearoa shirts
    I could just imagine the baby boomers outrage