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  1. Post
    #1

    Tax Working Group

    Tax Working Group's final report will be out this morning.

    This is the official thread for discussion, moaning, etc

  2. Post
    #2
    I can see why its needed to equalise things as if you own capital it goes up much faster than the average wage does, the haves and have nots are getting further and further apart..

    But I absolutely loath it goes to the grossly inefficient and wasteful government and gives hard earned money to a bunch of morons to squander.

  3. Post
    #3
    I'm reserving judgement until I see the final report.

  4. Post
    #4
    I think the tax I pay is a small price to pay to live in such a relative paradise. If the tax goes up, and I feel like I don't have enough in my hands at the end of the week, then I'll just have to pull finger and earn some more, or adjust my lifestyle and expectations.

    I don't even think its about equalizing things, there's costs to any transaction and even those higher up are usually deferring that cost till later.

  5. Post
    #5
    stacrafty wrote:
    I can see why its needed to equalise things as if you own capital it goes up much faster than the average wage does, the haves and have nots are getting further and further apart..

    But I absolutely loath it goes to the grossly inefficient and wasteful government and gives hard earned money to a bunch of morons to squander.
    "hard" earned is debateable in most cases I think heh

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  6. Post
    #6
    Dre wrote:
    "hard" earned is debateable in most cases I think heh

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    It is and it isn't

    Its extremely hard earned when you start out and work that shitty grad job, live under your means, save money etc. Research, plan, research, study etc, super careful about what you are going to do with that money. You make that investment whatever it might be, property, shares etc, a business maybe.

    That parts hard earned.

    Of course a decade down the track when somethings going up in value a couple of hundred $ a week, it doesn't seem hard earned then.

    However coming from a government job they their attitude is the polar opposite to the mindset I talked about in the first paragraph. In one instance in my old job I was asking we had hired PWC to put to together a presentation that we where perfectly capable of doing ourselves, and when I saw it it was a literal copy and paste (using snipping tool of all things) of existing work. At $200 an hour or whatever their charge out rate was.

    Government is an endless mess of wastage and inefficiency. At least when national was at the helm you had some private sector influence. Taxinda literally doesn't know the value of a dollar.

  7. Post
    #7
    Can't wait for the Capital Gains Tax and reduced Income Tax

  8. Post
    #8
    stacrafty wrote:
    It is and it isn't

    Its extremely hard earned when you start out and work that shitty grad job, live under your means, save money etc. Research, plan, research, study etc, super careful about what you are going to do with that money. You make that investment whatever it might be, property, shares etc, a business maybe.

    That parts hard earned.

    Of course a decade down the track when somethings going up in value a couple of hundred $ a week, it doesn't seem hard earned then..
    Yep, agree entirely.


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  9. Post
    #9
    SirGrim wrote:
    Can't wait for the Capital Gains Tax and reduced Income Tax
    I wonder if it will look what TOP proposed lol

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  10. Post
    #10
    Results are in - seems reasonable.

    Maybe if I wasn't in the position of it being a financial net negative I may think it hasn't gone far enough. The start date of April 2021 and the non retrospective parts were likely needed, but do seem to take a lot of the impact away from the whole thing (again, great for me personally).

    Ultimately see any increase in what I pay in taxes, similarly to what bradc said, as the cost to live here.

  11. Post
    #11
    It seems fine in logic to me, so someone tell me what 'negatives' could happen as a result?

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  12. Post
    #12
    stacrafty wrote:
    It is and it isn't

    Its extremely hard earned when you start out and work that shitty grad job, live under your means, save money etc. Research, plan, research, study etc, super careful about what you are going to do with that money. You make that investment whatever it might be, property, shares etc, a business maybe.

    That parts hard earned.
    I don't feel overall it's any "harder" than how a lot of people spend a career, really you get rewarded extra for being half bright, having decent opportunities and having a decent level of self discipline.

  13. Post
    #13
    bradc wrote:
    I don't feel overall it's any "harder" than how a lot of people spend a career, really you get rewarded extra for being half bright, having decent opportunities and having a decent level of self discipline.
    yeah but with a career you kind of have the safety net of earnings, what your'e going for is more earnings.

    With investing you need to go beyond what is the norm and firstly save the capital, then when you invest there's no guarantee of any return

  14. Post
    #14
    stacrafty wrote:
    yeah but with a career you kind of have the safety net of earnings, what your'e going for is more earnings.

    With investing you need to go beyond what is the norm and firstly save the capital, then when you invest there's no guarantee of any return
    That's why your possible returns (even after a capital gains tax) is still far, far higher than any salaried income

  15. Post
    #15
    Expanding the 10% bracket is a good move. Paying more for low value labour is problematic by definition, but letting the worker keep more of the same wage is a positive incentive.

  16. Post
    #16
    Dre wrote:
    It seems fine in logic to me, so someone tell me what 'negatives' could happen as a result?

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    30% That is ****ing nuts!
    They are including business.
    Bad idea, now all businesses will adjust for the loss ie, the cost of everything just went up.

  17. Post
    #17
    Daynger wrote:
    30% That is ****ing nuts!
    They are including business.
    Bad idea, now all businesses will adjust for the loss ie, the cost of everything just went up.
    It's not like it's actually tax law yet.

    They're going to let the voters decide , which means illiterates like you can vote on it.
    Last edited by Zarkov; 21st February 2019 at 11:34 pm.

  18. Post
    #18
    No adjustments for inflation and 33% is too high.

    I would prefer all existing assets to be grandparented instead of set valuation date. It just gives more uncertainty to the market, something this government is good at.

    I'm not apposed to a capital gains tax but its abit harsh...

  19. Post
    #19
    The market is built on instability, that's how you make decent coin.

  20. Post
    #20
    Zarkov wrote:
    It's not like it's actually tax law yet.

    They're going to let the voters decide , which means illiterates like you can vote on it.
    Cool, im illiterate because my view is different to yours i assume?
    Im picking you like the idea of taxing the middle class into the lower class? Because this wont really catch the upper class as well as they think it will.
    I am well aware its not law yet, im also well aware they will soften up and go Cullen was too harsh with 33%, here we will be nice with a 15% CGT.
    Targeting business will drive the cost of everything up.
    Targeting Kiwisaver is just plain stupid, why drive people away from the very thing Labour created to get people into saving for their retirement, the very thing that will help alleviate super problems in the future.

  21. Post
    #21
    33% is in line with the top tax rate so seems fair.

    Businesses usually don't factor cost of gains in overall value of the business in with their pricing to consumers as much as something like a GST.

  22. Post
    #22
    Won't be voting for it

  23. Post
    #23
    Zarkov wrote:
    It's not like it's actually tax law yet.

    They're going to let the voters decide , which means illiterates like you can vote on it.
    thats a bit rich considering your posts in the auckland property thread

  24. Post
    #24
    bradc wrote:
    33% is in line with the top tax rate so seems fair.

    Businesses usually don't factor cost of gains in overall value of the business in with their pricing to consumers as much as something like a GST.
    Yeah this is a good point, how would you quantify an end sale tax so you can adjust prices now?

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  25. Post
    #25
    While I kind of ideologically see where they're coming from in taxing investment property since it's currently encouraging money to go into unproductive assets, why are they punishing business by taxing capital gains on shares and businesses? That's completely at odds with their desire to push money into the productive sector.

    Taxing IP as well? Bitch please. Company I work for has spent 15 years developing IP that we're currently exporting overseas bringing millions of (taxed) dollars into the country. Us workers have taken a lower salary over the years in exchange for shares in the business, encouraging us to go above and beyond for the business (working unpaid nights, weekends, even wedding days!) to get things done, now the government wants its grubby little hands all over a sizeable chunk of it? If Labour gets voted in our company will disappear offshore before lunchtime the next day.