The Sekiro Accessibility Debate

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  1. Post
    BURN_BABY wrote:
    So you think that people with cognitive disabilities should be locked out of having their enjoyment of the game...because magic?

    I gotta say, some of the arguments I've heard here are the most nonsensical I've ever heard.
    You're going to have to be more granular if you want a proper answer. Nearly all disabled people can play all games just fine with generic tools for assistance (custom control methods, color blindness, etc). I'm not talking about the very low amount of people that you seem to be referring to.

    To be more specific, if you're talking about people with reaction speeds so slow they can't react to the level required in this game, then the answer is this game was not made for them and adding options to relieve the difficulty is removing a core aspect of the game that makes it what it is.

    Despite what many may say (mostly those who don't understand From's games), difficulty is something that can't be altered without destroying it. The difficulty level it is at now is the easy difficulty level.

  2. Post
    Look up Brolylegs for some inspiration.

  3. Post
    Despite what many may say (mostly those who don't understand From's games), difficulty is something that can't be altered without destroying it. The difficulty level it is at now is the easy difficulty level.
    Nonsense. Every other modern game on the planet (including the DiRT Rally series, the 'dark souls' of driving games) has implemented many different levels of AI difficulty just fine. Difficulty shouldn't be considered a concept that can be 'destroyed' - it should be treated as something that can be tweaked to find a sweet spot.

    To be more specific, if you're talking about people with reaction speeds so slow they can't react to the level required in this game, then the answer is this game was not made for them and adding options to relieve the difficulty is removing a core aspect of the game that makes it what it is.
    And who exactly are you to make that call? AFAIK FromSoftware hasn't made any comment.

  4. Post
    Isn't the entire point of these games is that they're hard? Like if there was an 'easy' mode would it even be worth playing? The developers clearly put a lot of time into balancing the fights and making the game combat based so what's the point if you just breeze through it? The story? just watch it on youtube or a stream...

    I'm impressed the developers actually make games like this(even though I don't like them), they must be losing a ton of customers by making tough games and I can see why the fan base is really against lowering the difficulty because they fear once it starts getting easier it'll be all downhill for that specific series, which is probably true.

    But on the other hand they could just add an 'easy' mode and make sure future games cover every difficulty level including nightmare or whatever gets you going. Or maybe they make the games even harder, remove difficulties until only the hardest is left and everyone has no choice but to play that other samurai game.

  5. Post
    BURN_BABY wrote:
    Nonsense. Every other modern game on the planet (including the DiRT Rally series, the 'dark souls' of driving games) has implemented many different levels of AI difficulty just fine. Difficulty shouldn't be considered a concept that can be 'destroyed' - it should be treated as something that can be tweaked to find a sweet spot.
    Dirt Rally is an interesting example, because even at the easiest AI difficulty many people still found it too hard. To remedy this for Dirt 4, Codemasters introduced an arcade handling mode, and in doing so broke the underlying physics that were so highly praised in the previous game. Cars that should be almost impossible to drive with all assists turned off in simulation handling(Group B RWD for instance) were now docile and boring. This has been somewhat remedied in Dirt 2.0, but it does lend weight to the argument that most driving/flight sim gamers make, that pandering to a larger audience will ruin the fun of those wanting realism.

    Regarding difficulty for most other types of game (including this Sekiro), I mostly agree with your argument. Having an easy mode takes nothing away from those playing it at higher difficulties, and if the developers with to add this in then it should be praised rather than derided. But it should also be the developer's decision to implement this.

    I guess my opinion is that as long as adding in an easier mode does not fundamentally break the more difficult modes, then it should not be an issue.

  6. Post
    BURN_BABY

    Where do you draw the line for accessibility? Are you suggesting if an activity isn't accessible by ALL including the blind, deaf quadraplegics then it is innately discriminatory?

    Or is it reasonable to suggest that a quadraplegic probably shouldn't take up a hobby in rock climbing?

    Perhaps you believe if a rock climbing gym exists, then it MUST cater to ALL disabilities no matter how rare, no matter how economically unviable, or else its discrimating towards the disabled?

    Maybe then you think sport is innately unfair - at the end of the day ALL physical-based activity favours someone more physically able and is therefore discriminatory towards everyone less able?

  7. Post
    BURN_BABY wrote:
    Nonsense. Every other modern game on the planet (including the DiRT Rally series, the 'dark souls' of driving games) has implemented many different levels of AI difficulty just fine. Difficulty shouldn't be considered a concept that can be 'destroyed' - it should be treated as something that can be tweaked to find a sweet spot.

    And who exactly are you to make that call? AFAIK FromSoftware hasn't made any comment.
    Can I ask if you have you finished the game (or any From game for that matter) or are you just playing the devil's advocate and making commentary from a position that is uninformed?

    The fact you argue for an AI tweak to fix difficulty screams volumes about your experience with the game.

    I don't think you can make the 'add an easy mode' call without having completing the game personally. We can see the logic here without the metaphors GP loves so much I hope.

  8. Post
    i still dont understand why this debate is still on going. The dev has said No, that should be end of story. Dont like it ? well go download the cheat and enjoy.

  9. Post
    ^This. As Bloody said the devs will not implement an easy mode & why should they? Thy've being make these hard ass games for the last 10 years and that is what they are renowned & revered for. Why should they suddenly start pandering to people who aren't their target demographic in the first place?

    Also people need to play this game for at least 10 hours & actually put some effort into learning the game before they complain about it.
    Last edited by Ins0mn1ac; 16th April 2019 at 11:13 am.

  10. Post
    Ins0mn1ac wrote:
    Also people need to play this game for at least 10 hours & actually put some effort into learning the game before they complain about it.
    just like game of the year fallout 76

  11. Post
    Ins0mn1ac wrote:
    Thy've being make these hard ass games for the last 10 years and that is what they are renowned & revered for. Why should they suddenly start pandering to people who aren't their target demographic in the first place?
    Because this is 2019 bro, everyone is entitled.

  12. Post
    yeahboiwahoo wrote:
    just like game of the year fallout 76
    But Sekiro is actually good which is why people actually care lol

    Black Plague*** wrote:
    Because this is 2019 bro, everyone is entitled.
    so true lol

  13. Post
    From Software should remaster the Otogi games. Now those were pretty awesome games back in the day.

  14. Post
    Black Plague*** wrote:
    Because this is 2019 bro, everyone is entitled.
    well, they are unless someone gets offended then it is disgusting or you cannot have this cos ..

  15. Post
    Dirt Rally is an interesting example, because even at the easiest AI difficulty many people still found it too hard. To remedy this for Dirt 4, Codemasters introduced an arcade handling mode, and in doing so broke the underlying physics that were so highly praised in the previous game. Cars that should be almost impossible to drive with all assists turned off in simulation handling(Group B RWD for instance) were now docile and boring. This has been somewhat remedied in Dirt 2.0, but it does lend weight to the argument that most driving/flight sim gamers make, that pandering to a larger audience will ruin the fun of those wanting realism.
    BURN_BABY

    Where do you draw the line for accessibility? Are you suggesting if an activity isn't accessible by ALL including the blind, deaf quadraplegics then it is innately discriminatory?

    Or is it reasonable to suggest that a quadraplegic probably shouldn't take up a hobby in rock climbing?

    Perhaps you believe if a rock climbing gym exists, then it MUST cater to ALL disabilities no matter how rare, no matter how economically unviable, or else its discrimating towards the disabled?

    Maybe then you think sport is innately unfair - at the end of the day ALL physical-based activity favours someone more physically able and is therefore discriminatory towards everyone less able?
    FWIW, I'm not advocating that games pander to literally everyone here, I'm just advocating for a bit more customisation when it comes to difficulty. I also think Dirt 4 vs. Dirt Rally is also a good example of this argument going too far in the other direction.

    I just feel there's there's a middle ground here between 'there must only be one difficulty' vs. 'it must be playable for absolutely everyone', and I don't understand why people believe it's is completely impossible for a compromise to me made, which mods have shown already that it is possible on some level.

    i still dont understand why this debate is still on going. The dev has said No, that should be end of story. Dont like it ? well go download the cheat and enjoy.
    [citation needed] on the dev saying no, but fair enough on the latter point.
    Last edited by BURN_BABY; 16th April 2019 at 5:00 pm.

  16. Post
    There's the backtracking we all knew was coming if actually pushed to maintain such a ridiculous position that encompasses taking away agency from artists and by extension anyone who is exclusionary in any capacity whatsoever. Imagine arguing that your arbitrary line is more important than the artists. ZzzZzz.

    The TLDR is if you don't like it don't support it and if it really shits someone do it yourself. How anyone can think the argument boils down to anything else is hilariously ****ing painful.

    The best thing for the developer to have done was to say we hear you then ignore it completely as the news cycles to other fruitless bullshit.

  17. Post
    I look forward to no other complaints about any other devs from here on out.

  18. Post
    ^ Except Bethesda - f**k those guys

  19. Post
    Todd is god

    Imagine arguing that your arbitrary line is more important than the artists

    S M H

  20. Post
    Yeah, but there's a massive difference between the artists choice, and a shit game that is full of bugs and was released prematurely as full AAA title at a full AAA price when really, they should be paying you to play the f**king thing.

    Todd is a lying piece of shit.

  21. Post
    one mans bugs is another mans treasure

    if it makes you feel any better fo76 hasn't really improved either lol (and I still dont have my canvas bag)

    same rabble applies to battlefield 5, what a shit show that has been

    https://www.reddit.com/r/gayfortodd/

  22. Post
    Frederick James wrote:
    Yeah, but there's a massive difference between the artists choice, and a shit game that is full of bugs and was released prematurely as full AAA title at a full AAA price when really, they should be paying you to play the f**king thing.

    Todd is a lying piece of shit.
    Is there though? While I definitely agree that FO76 is a sham, there are literally dozens of people enjoying FO76 even though it was Bethesda's 'artistic vision' to create it. Does that shield them from criticism?

    Imagine arguing that your arbitrary line is more important than the artists. ZzzZzz.
    Again, where is the source? To my knowledge, From hasn't even commented on multiple difficulty levels?

  23. Post
    BURN_BABY wrote:
    Is there though? While I definitely agree that FO76 is a sham, there are literally dozens of people enjoying FO76 even though it was Bethesda's 'artistic vision' to create it. Does that shield them from criticism?


    The difference is Sekiro isn't a buggy mess and has been universally praised whereas FO76 is the total opposite. People aren't criticising Sekiro for being a subpar game & a buggy mess & the complaints are nothing to do with the quality of the game. The only big complaint is it's "too hard" and only the cry babies are complaining about that. Bethesda deserved all the criticism they received.

  24. Post
    Ins0mn1ac wrote:
    The difference is Sekiro isn't a buggy mess and has been universally praised whereas FO76 is the total opposite. People aren't criticising Sekiro for being a subpar game & a buggy mess & the complaints are nothing to do with the quality of the game. The only big complaint is it's "too hard" and only the cry babies are complaining about that. Bethesda deserved all the criticism they received.
    So what you're saying is that it's ok to disagree with an authors artistic direction of the game based on your own personal opinion of it, yet other people are 'cry babies' for disagreeing with one fixed difficulty, which (presumably, we don't have a source) was that particular developers artistic direction and thus should be ignored?

    I hope you see the hypocrisy here.

  25. Post
    BURN_BABY wrote:
    So what you're saying is that it's ok to disagree with an authors artistic direction of the game based on your own personal opinion of it, yet other people are 'cry babies' for disagreeing with one fixed difficulty, which (presumably, we don't have a source) was that particular developers artistic direction and thus should be ignored?

    I hope you see the hypocrisy here.
    I'm not talking about the artistic direction Beth took with FO76. I'm saying it's a buggy piece of shit of a game & that's what everyone is complaining about. Those complaints are VALID & most critics & consumers agree.
    Sekiro on the other hand is a well made quality game that isnt riddled with bugs like FO76. The only thing people are complaining about is that its too hard. No one is complaining about the quality of the game.

    Bah your deluded white knighting is getting tiresome & if you don't get it by now you never will.